can I get ill from eating too much bacon?

zhao

there are no accidents
spackb0y said:
I'm pretty sure this is a myth propounded by various groups.
I don't think so.

spackb0y said:
pigs are one of the most mistreated farmed animals, after chickens - kept in very cramped conditions and stuffed full of antibiotics. Danish bacon is especially bad, apparently - their laws are more lax than, say the UKs.
and pigs are smarter than dogs. but I have a hard time getting behind the animal rights cause because humans are ALSO smarter than dogs but is subject to routine mal-treatment often worse than pigs or chickens.
 

Lichen

New member
I'm backin' bacon!

Supermarket bacon, allmost without exception is foul.

Try Jack Scaife for the proper taste of bacon.

And no, this isn't SPAM, it's bacon
 

bassnation

the abyss
Ned said:
Not convinced by this, if you look at the PETA web page on the risks of dairy, the best they can come up with is:

1. doesn't protect against osteoperosis: wasn't assuming it did
2. cardiovascular disease: don't want this but I have a healthy lifestyle otherwise
3. cancer: not going to get ovarian or breast cancer
4. diabetes: don't have it
5. lactose intolerance: don't have it
6. not a good source of Vitamin D: again, wasn't assuming it was
7. contaminants: you can get organic
8. health concern in infants and children: not a problem
you can develop diabetes at any point in your life (with some people being more susceptible to others).

plus they also mention prostrate cancer.

you can also get cardiovascular disease if you eat a lot of red meat even if you live an otherwise healthy lifestyle. in fact i'd go as far to say that large amounts of red meat does not equal a healthy lifestyle full stop. theres nothing wrong with it in moderation though.

personally i don't feel very good if i eat red meat dishes for a couple of days running.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.

raw red meat is very good for you (provided, of course, that it is properly prepared and cleaned and all that)
 

bassnation

the abyss
confucius said:
it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.

raw red meat is very good for you (provided, of course, that it is properly prepared and cleaned and all that)
mate, you'd be nuts to eat raw meat in the uk. even cooked meat has been a death sentence for some people. i know enough about the standards of food production here to not want to even consider it.
 

Ned

Ruby Tuesday
bassnation said:
you can develop diabetes at any point in your life (with some people being more susceptible to others).
You can only get 'child-onset' diabetes when you're a child, surely.
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
confucius said:
even if pork tends to stay and rot in your lower intestines slightly less than beef (years and years)
Alright then, got any evidence?

It just doesn't make sense logically - where is all this meat stored, and why doesn't it block up the flow of other food?

it's the fact that the animal protein, red or not, is COOKED that toxifies your system and leads to cancer.
Actually, it's more complicated than that. There's no consensus on exactly why red meat is linked with increased bowel cancer - one theory is that it's because of the production of heterocyclic amines, carcinogens that are produced in cooking. However, cooking white meat also produces these carcinogens, but white meat does not show a link with bowel cancer.

Other theories are that its something specific to red meat - possibly haemoglobin, or it's linked to sulpher and sulphate eating bacteria, which feed on the sulpher based preservatives which you will find in almost all processed food, and also red meat.

bassnation said:
mate, you'd be nuts to eat raw meat in the uk. even cooked meat has been a death sentence for some people. i know enough about the standards of food production here to not want to even consider it.
I'm assuming you mean dangers from food poisoning.

I've eaten raw beef (as carpaccio etc) plenty of times and very rare beef, lamb and venison even more. Meat with high amounts of saturated fat impedes the growth of bacteria - which is why you can hang a side of beef for months then eat it rare without getting ill. Meat with low saturated fat like chicken and fish goes off very quickly, so your much more likely to get ill from poorly cooked seafood and chicken than raw beef.



More generally, I think the "dangers" of red meat for health are masked by the presence of other negative factors - trans fatty acids, processed vegetable oils, salt and sugar. All of which are present in processed foods, and it's difficult to find large numbers of people who eat a lot of red meat but not processed meat
 

neupunk

New member
The idea of things sticking in your intestines, whether it's meat or "toxins," is pretty much the territory of "healthy" people who think that things like colon therapy, repeated enemas and fasting, and long sauna breaks are ways to somehow detoxify the body. It's a way to lose weight, to be sure, but you're not removing anything from your body that you didn't recently put into it as the human digestive system is pretty damn efficient.

The grossest part is when people who have gone through this sort of thing and claim that they were able to see "toxic substances" in the toilet, which are in fact things like ultra-compressed waste from the churning they've put their gut through, or long stringy bits that are actually intestinal lining that's sloughed off.

That said, I'd probably be sick if I ate bacon every day, let alone several times a day. That much fat and grease will definitely cause long-term distress.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
sorry, but I don't have time to break it down or site medical references. all I can say is millions of colon cancer victims don't lie. and my personal experiences sure as HELL don't lie.

in the past 2 years or so I've realized that some of the very basic assumptions we have about our bodies are completely wrong.

if you are interested in this, just go do some research.
 

tryptych

waiting for a time
confucius said:
sorry, but I don't have time to break it down or site medical references. all I can say is millions of colon cancer victims don't lie. and my personal experiences sure as HELL don't lie.

in the past 2 years or so I've realized that some of the very basic assumptions we have about our bodies are completely wrong.

if you are interested in this, just go do some research.
I'm not doubting that high fat, high meat diets are linked with colon cancer. I'm simply disputing the claim that "meat stays in your gut for years and years".

Here's a recent thing from the BBC which explains the uncertainties in causes of bowel cancer linked to meat that I mentioned:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4088824.stm
 

bruno

est malade
whatever happened to eating for pleasure? i'll have my bacon, thank you.

show me a study that measures the ratio of malaise to well-being resulting from eating bacon, i could volunteer to skew the results.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
whatever happened to eating for pleasure?=
I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.
 

bruno

est malade
I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.
these are curious assumptions, zhao! it's funny how the word pleasure sends you reeling with grotesque images of mindless food-stuffing. i don't think anyone functions like that in real life but there you go, it's your vision.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
maybe my description is exaggerated, but I would say most people do function like this. raised with wrong eating habits, constantly bombarded by advertising from an early age, we are conditioned to eat in an unhealthy way, mistaking it for pleasure. most people everywhere are addicted to very, very unhealthy diets -- obscene over-consumption of cooked animal protein for one thing -- and it causes them no small amount of suffering.

in medical communities bowl problems including intestinal and colon cancer and a myriad of digestive disorders are being called the "silent epidemic", because people are getting sick in alarmingly large numbers due to nothing but increasingly unhealthy diets -- and no one wants to talk about it because it is ugly.

another sign of pervasive unhealthy diet -- just look at the rate of childhood obesity - also rising at an alarming rate.

I feel the same about this subject as many others -- that the "normal" way that society encourages, the way that everyone does it day in and day out, is very wrong. and that it takes an awakening, almost always as result of a close encounter with disaster, to realize this.

eating healthy is not about depriving oneself. it is about eating consciously - not emotionally, not addictive, mindlessly.

and similarly, eating for pleasure is not folowing whims or eating what you are conditioned to like.

___________________

I'm sure this will piss a great number of people off -- you "underground music" types can be just as closed-minded as the red-necks: "IT'S MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO HAVE MY MOTHER-FUCKIN STEAKS EVERY NIGHT DAMMIT! AND AIN'T NO NEW AGE HIPPIE FREAK GONNA TELL ME OTHERWISE!"

:eek:
 
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Precious Cuts

New member
maybe my description is exaggerated, but I would say most people do function like this. raised with wrong eating habits, constantly bombarded by advertising from an early age, we are conditioned to eat in an unhealthy way, mistaking it for pleasure. most people everywhere are addicted to very, very unhealthy diets -- obscene over-consumption of cooked animal protein for one thing -- and it causes them no small amount of suffering.

in medical communities bowl problems including intestinal and colon cancer and a myriad of digestive disorders are being called the "silent epidemic", because people are getting sick in alarmingly large numbers due to nothing but increasingly unhealthy diets -- and no one wants to talk about it because it is ugly.

another sign of pervasive unhealthy diet -- just look at the rate of childhood obesity - also rising at an alarming rate.

I feel the same about this subject as many others -- that the "normal" way that society encourages, the way that everyone does it day in and day out, is very wrong. and that it takes an awakening, almost always as result of a close encounter with disaster, to realize this.

eating healthy is not about depriving oneself. it is about eating consciously - not emotionally, not addictive, mindlessly.

and similarly, eating for pleasure is not folowing whims or eating what you are conditioned to like.

___________________

I'm sure this will piss a great number of people off -- you "underground music" types can be just as closed-minded as the red-necks: "IT'S MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO HAVE MY MOTHER-FUCKIN STEAKS EVERY NIGHT DAMMIT! AND AIN'T NO NEW AGE HIPPIE FREAK GONNA TELL ME OTHERWISE!"

:eek:
umm it won't piss me off, but you're wrong, about protein anyway. There is nothing wrong with animal proteins in and of themselves. People should eat lots of fish. You simply can't have too much protein because whatever you don't use comes out the other end.

Protein is the one thing that almost everyone lacks in their diet these days. Eating animal protein in general should not be discouraged. You have to recognize that there are good sources (fish) and bad sources (bacon). There are other things that are much worse for your health, and are actualy over consumed by everyone: wheat, potatoes, oils and sugar. Men have eaten animals for many millenia. We have only been domesticating grains for the last few, and we have dramatically altered our eating habits from the "caveman diet" (one of the healthiest on earth, which athletes still try to emulate) to a farmers diet that is absurdly heavy in dairy, carbohydrates and sugars.

The problem is not protein, its a sedentary lifestyle combined with high-energy/low-protein foods -> high body fat/low muscle mass - > poor metabolism -> even higher body fat -> even worse metabolism... I think you are distorting the issues to prop up vegetarianism as a catch-all solution. This is misleading.. its much harder to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet than to maintain a healthy meat eating diet.

I had digestive problems for the last 3 years, and just found out that it is celiac disease. Of all the doctors I talked to none of them thought meat was an issue at all - and it wasn't. According to actual doctors, the increasing number bowel problems like IBS (the silent epidemic you speak of) etc. are linked to wheat more than anything else, specifically to foods made with highly processed white flour. If you go in with bowel problems, that is the first thing a doctor will recommend - no white bread, pizza crust etc. also, risks of bowel cancer are increased by any prolonged irritation of the bowels - not by meat or wheat itself. If anyone here is having stomach issues, try cutting wheat entirely out of your diet for a week or two. Chances are, that is the problem, not meat...

anways, here's Cam'ron's song putting it down for IBS awareness:

Lemme tell y'all a lil story about myself
This right here is a true story, check it out though

[Verse 1]
Ulcers hurt my salary, alter my personality
Give it to you real, I can't feed my culture no fallacy
You know my attitude, arrogant, cocky rude
Eatin off papi food, used to be a stocky dude
Weighed two-twenty, wit two honies, I move monie
It's true dummy, dunny need a new tummy
I become berserk, it was no fun to work
Everyday my stomach hurt, rippin off my undershirt
The pain was no comparison, stomach started cherishin
Throwin up in public, yo fuck it, it was embarrassin
Regurgitatin, green, yellow, burgundy, Boom
But came my urgency soon, (what) the emergency room (oh)
In there, no salvage, treated like a cold savage
They said pimpin symptoms, huh, a dope addicts
There you have it, but they ain't find no heroin
Coke, crack, dope, just weed, but that's my medicine

[Chorus]
My baby mama, mama, and my grandma
Say that I'm too gordy (too gordy), word to my blue maurys
This is a true story
I got stomach pain, don't matter sun or rain
Thought that it went away, uh oh, here it come again

[Verse 2]
Never mind stuntin, dime puffin, doc spent his time frontin
He like a bad detective, he ain't find nuttin
Besides that though, I can't enjoy a movie, dinner (why is that?)
My son growin up, I'm lookin like the movie thinner
I'm thinkin suicide, do or die, sit and cry (oh)
What hurt my baby moms askin if I'm gettin high (what the fuck you talkin about?)
She gonna play me a thug, I told the lady I love
If it ain't hustlin ma, please don't relate me to drugs (at all)
I'm loosin weight though, everyday pounds and muscles
Gotta get off my ass, hit some towns and hustle
Bein sick, huh, it get sickenin you know
I was too sick to do shows, but still equipped to move O's
You know my attitude, get it how I get it
If I can shoot, I turn around (then) I'm off my pivot
And oops, I thought I had it mapped
Weight started to gain again, it was just a game my friend
Dame mane I pained again

[Chorus]

[Verse 3]
Ay yo, god body, I'm hard bodied, word mommy, vanishin
Hadda go low, the male clinic, Minnesota
I couldn't get cake, a rock in a hard place
For me, that's a odd place, I'm only here by God's grace
Like a lab rat, them tests dishonor Cam
Ultrasound, MIR, CAT scan, sonogram
Laparoscopy, inoscopy, I be stressed (I be stressed)
The prognosis, diagnosed, IBS
And that's irritable bowel child, I hadda spit it y'all
Kick to y'all, so it ain't my fault if I shit on y'all
Get it, get it, get it, get it?
 
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Precious Cuts

New member
I'm all for it. but you see, pleasure does not mean following your immediate, "fake" and "manufactured" desire and every momentary whim -- cheeseburgers at 4 AM all drunk and stoned. that is just vulger. not to mention destructive.

real culinary pleasure comes from eating consciously, and like all great pleasures that life has to offer, requires a bit of patience, a process of discovery, and discipline.

stuffing yourself with disgusting crap when ever you feel like it is NOT eating for pleasure -- it is addiction.
Foucault was an excellent chef. By all accounts he was a master of French cuisine and threw dinner parties that were legendary.

What was his favorite dish?

A club sandwich, fries and a Coca-Cola. probably enjoyed while drunk and stoned.

Quite frankly, alleging false consciousness in peoples enjoyment of food is ridiculous nonsense. It sounds like you have read way too much Adbusters.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
Foucault was an excellent chef.
so your logic is as follows: because Foucault was an amazing writer, historian, and philosopher, so he must be absolutely spot-on when it comes to health and nutrition, and we should model our diet after his eating habits? :eek:

The problem is not protein, its a sedentary lifestyle combined with high-energy/low-protein foods -> high body fat/low muscle mass - > poor metabolism -> even higher body fat -> even worse metabolism... I think you are distorting the issues to prop up vegetarianism as a catch-all solution. This is misleading.. its much harder to maintain a healthy vegetarian diet than to maintain a healthy meat eating diet.
thanks for the reply. lots of good points.

I actually said "cooked animal proteine", and not just "animal protein". cooked meat drastically increases carcenogen levels, and toxifies the body more than anything else -- and these toxins does not leave the body for a long time, and causes many problems.

I suppose the jokes about eating raw meat will follow --but what you may not know is that much like raw fish is professionally prepared, raw meat can as well. and it is the best source of protein. it is not common but many traditional cultures have raw beef and other meat dishes -- Armenian, Vietnamese, etc, etc.

but you are right that vegetarianism is not the catch all solution, (but in my estimation is predominantly, overwhelmingly beneficial).

and you are right about over consumption of carbohydrates -- and that pre-agricultural diet is much more healthy -- all major diseases such as cancer did not exist before we started farming -- but there are different view points as to what "caveman" diet consisted of exactly -- what I know and have read, may be contrary to some historians and doctors in mainstream medicine, leads me to believe that it was thousands of kinds of raw plants, and little meat -- and very little cooked meat.
 
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