British Legion Poppies

zhao

there are no accidents
this is like the theme of the month... the picture seems clear: the occasional fucked up things we hear about the US government are not exceptions but the rule (hope i used that correctly?) -- the entire country really is built on oppression, the blood of innocents, and dirty money.

so nomad your family were actually big mobsters in the 60s? I'm sure you are sick of hearing this and it's nothing like what other people imagine, but "wow" nonetheless.
 
N

nomadologist

Guest
this is like the theme of the month... the picture seems clear: the occasional fucked up things we hear about the US government are not exceptions but the rule (hope i used that correctly?) -- the entire country really is built on oppression, the blood of innocents, and dirty money.

so nomad your family were actually big mobsters in the 60s? I'm sure you are sick of hearing this and it's nothing like what other people imagine, but "wow" nonetheless.

oh yes if i told you who exactly who you might never talk to me again...my mom's last name was used in "Goodfellas" and all over the place...

to give a hint: think the Don of Toronto, Calabrese, makes Gotti look like Father Christmas. He was the boss of my family, with the same last name. S'why I had to grow up basically in Canada...

nobody knows better than us how fucked up the government is... especially the goddamned CIA, what a joke

found this on wikipedia about us:

[edit] After the Castellammarese War
Following a brief period under the control of Frank Scalise, the first recognized leader of what would become the Gambino family was Vincent Mangano, an old-school Mafia don in the style of Masseria and Maranzano but one who was tolerated due to his close ties with notorious gangster Carbone family from Toronto Canada, Roberto Carbone Born December 8,1967, was elected 2002 as head Boss. Emil Camarda, vice-president of the International Longshoremen's Association. Through the association, of Mangano and Carbone family controlled the New York and Brooklyn waterfront with activities ranging from extortion to union racketeering, as well as illegal gambling operations including horse betting, running numbers and lotteries. Mangano and Carbone also established the City Democratic Club, ostensibly to promote bedrock American values but in reality as a cover for Murder, Inc., the notorious band of mainly-Jewish hitmen who would do the bidding of the Italian-American run families, for a price. Phil was a member, as was Albert Anastasia, known as the "Lord High Executioner".Roberto Carboneis known as Bones and wiped out the Gotta family. Around this time, Carlo Gambino was promoted within the organization, as was another future boss of the family,
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
that story about the korean war vet just made me tear up :(

when will people wake up, i wonder? maybe after their precious TVs and films and ipods are taken away and they're forced to deal with the truth?

probably not even then...
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
when will people wake up, i wonder? maybe after their precious TVs and films and ipods are taken away and they're forced to deal with the truth?

How did a single product become such a universal symbol for throw-away culture, instant gratification and vapid consumerism?
I wonder if this bothers Steve Jobs at all as he goes for a Scrooge McDuck-style money-swim.
 
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N

nomadologist

Guest
CIA connections? [JFK's friends? Though given that JFK's dad made his fortune by smuggling alcohol from Canada during Prohibition, I'm not surprised].

The CIA facilitated and oversaw heroin trafficking during the Vietnam war:
...

In light of all this, isn't it hard not to wonder whether the current war might be just as motivated by desire to control future poppy production as it is about oil? Think about the status of poppy as a cash crop, especially because some are claiming "shortages" of raw opium available to be refined for medical purposes.
 

Yes, and the article does further confirm how The Golden Triangle became an also-ran in heroin trade, while opium production has moved to the poppy fields of Afghanistan.


In light of all this, isn't it hard not to wonder whether the current war might be just as motivated by desire to control future poppy production as it is about oil? Think about the status of poppy as a cash crop, especially because some are claiming "shortages" of raw opium available to be refined for medical purposes.

There is evidence in support of that hypothesis.

According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, opium production in Afghanistan has increased by 34 per cent in 2007; in 2006 it was 59 per cent higher than in 2005. It estimates that Afghanistan supplies 93 per cent of the global opiates market (versus the earlier estimate up-thread of 85-90%).

The report concludes: "On aggregate, Afghanistan's opium production has thus reached a frighteningly new level, twice the amount produced just two years ago."

The United Nations report states, "the yearly Afghan opium harvest may kill directly and not, over 100,000 people."

We also know that long before this, in February, 2001, the Taliban had practically eradicated production of all opium in Afghanistan. So what happened?

From 2001: Opium Connection Afghanistan-US

Why, in light of all the information we now know the government had about imminent attacks, did the Bush Administration gift the Taliban with $43 million in May of this year [2001]? The move by the White House, sorely criticized by columnist Robert Scheer in the May 22, 2001 Los Angeles Times, was an alleged reward by the U.S. for the Taliban's destruction of Afghan opium crops in February. Now, the U.S. government is rushing to mate with a Pakistani regime that sustains itself by, and derives liquid currency from, the drug trade. The result of that is that opium production will surely blossom again in Afghanistan - under U.S./CIA control.
...
That, in effect, made the U.S. the Taliban's largest financial benefactor according to syndicated columnist Robert Scheer writing in The Los Angeles times on May 22, 2001. But -- as we described in FTW's March 2001 issue -- the Taliban's destruction of that crop was apparently the single most important act of economic warfare against U.S. economic interests that the Taliban had ever committed. So why the gift?

Critics of the Gulf War well recall how, just prior to Sadam's invasion of Kuwait, President Bush (Sr.) dispatched Ambassador April Glaspie to visit Sadam with a letter and a "wink and a nod" telling the Iraqi leader that it was OK to invade his smaller neighbor. The May gift from Uncle Sam could well have been sending the same kind of message, along with necessary funds to complete the attacks. Drugs and terrorism go hand in hand.

Until February [2001], Afghanistan had been the world's largest producer of opium/heroin, claiming close to 70% of the world's total production. That opium, consumed largely in Western Europe and smuggled through the Balkans, was a direct source of cash deposits in Western financial institutions and markets.
...

As FTW described in 1998, and as confirmed by Chossudovsky, the key to understanding U.S. support of bin Laden is to grasp that he has always been controlled by a cutout, the Pakistani government and its intelligence service the ISI. In this manner there has been virtually no direct contact between bin Laden and the CIA. This has served the dual purpose of maintaining his apparent "purity" with his followers and providing plausible deniability for the CIA. The whole underlying pretext for this relationship evaporated with the Taliban's destruction of the opium crop in February.
...

"The history of the drug trade in Central Asia is intimately related to the CIA's covert operations. Prior to the Soviet-Afghan war, opium production in Afghanistan and Pakistan was directed to small regional markets. There was no local production of heroin. In this regard [Professor] Alfred McCoy's study confirms that within two years of the onslaught of the CIA operation in Afghanistan, 'the Pakistan-Afghanistan borderlands became the world's top heroin producer, supplying 60 per sent of the U.S. demand

"With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, a new surge in opium production has unfolded. (According to UN estimates, the production of opium in Afghanistan in 1998-99 -- coinciding with the build up of armed insurgencies in the former Soviet republics -- reached a record high of 4600 metric tons. Powerful business syndicates in the former Soviet Union allied with organized crime are competing for the strategic control over the heroin routes.

"The ISI's extensive intelligence military-network was not dismantled in the wake of the Cold War. The CIA continued to support the Islamic "jihad" out of Pakistan"

"The Golden Crescent drug trade was also being used to finance and equip the Bosnian Muslim Army (starting in the early 1990s) and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). In the last few months there is evidence that Mujhideen mercenaries are fighting in the ranks of the KLA-NLA terrorists in their assaults into Macedonia

" With regard to Chechnya, the main rebel leaders Shamil Basayev and Al Khattab were trained and indoctrinated in CIA sponsored camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan In this regard, the involvement of Pakistan's ISI and its radical Islamic proxies are actually calling the shots in this war.

"Russia's main pipeline route transits through Chechnya and Dagestan. Despite Washington's perfunctory condemnation of Islamic terrorism, the indirect beneficiaries of the Chechen war are the Anglo-American oil conglomerates which are vying for control over oil resources and pipeline corridors out of the Caspian Sea basin."

The oil and drug connections were the subject of FTW's story, The Bush-Cheney drug Empire in October, 2000. That story is online at www.copvcia.com/stories/previous/bush-cheney-drugs.html. Both Bush and Cheney are oil men.

George Bush, Sr. was Vice President and, by virtue of executive Order 12333, in charge of all U.S. intelligence and narcotics operations from 1981 through 1989. As President from 1989 through 1993, he continued and expanded his control in these areas. Thus, it was Bush (the elder) who directly nourished and nurtured bin Laden's evolution.​
 

zhao

there are no accidents
the fact that majority of Iraq-raping is being done by Iraqis...
sorry to interrupt the interesting conversation about narcotics but this needs to be addressed:

(here is me excersising restraint and patience)

the instability and conflict between rival factions in iraq (and many other parts of the world) is largely a result of events of the past years and decades which America and the "west" is very, very complicit. the view expressed by the statement above is ignoring fundamental causes which give rise to the current situation, and betray the extent to which lopsided ideas and outright lies put forth by mainstream propaganda has had even on seemingly intellgent and even left leaning citizens of the first world.

it is the equivalent of saying Rwanda 94 was entirely an african problem caused by africans, and it is highly dissapointing and offensive.

(notice the exclusion of words such as "brainwashed", "sheep", and "drooling idiocy" in my response)
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
sorry to interrupt the interesting conversation about narcotics but this needs to be addressed:
..........

I'm not exonerating anyone, and I would agree that it would indeed be extremely untrue to say that problems in Iraq and elsewhere in the region have not been caused to some extent by 'Western' (including Soviet/Russian) action. But it would equally stupid to claim that none of the region's problems are of its own making, that everyone there would live in peace and prosperity if only those awful Westerners would leave them alone. Indeed this approach, taken to an extreme, can end up looking an awful lot like racism as Arabs and Muslims are reduced from the status of rational, sentient beings to creatures who can only passively react to conditions set up by the West, which is of course fully culpable and responsible for everything it does.

(here is me exercising my brain)
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I'm not exonerating anyone, and I would agree that it would indeed be extremely untrue to say that problems in Iraq and elsewhere in the region have not been caused to some extent by 'Western' (including Soviet/Russian) action. But it would equally stupid to claim that none of the region's problems are of its own making, that everyone there would live in peace and prosperity if only those awful Westerners would leave them alone. Indeed this approach, taken to an extreme, can end up looking an awful lot like racism as Arabs and Muslims are reduced from the status of rational, sentient beings to creatures who can only passively react to conditions set up by the West, which is of course fully culpable and responsible for everything it does.

(here is me exercising my brain)

that sounds reasonable. at least a lot more so than your original statement.
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Indeed this approach, taken to an extreme, can end up looking an awful lot like racism as Arabs and Muslims are reduced from the status of rational, sentient beings to creatures who can only passively react to conditions set up by the West, which is of course fully culpable and responsible for everything it does.

Maybe we should be more concerned about reducing Iraqis from rational sentient beings to piles of ash and viscera while we make non-statements and non-arguments out of hypothetical distinctions ("equally stupid") no one actually made.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Maybe we should be more concerned about reducing Iraqis from rational sentient beings to piles of ash and viscera while we make non-statements and non-arguments out of hypothetical distinctions ("equally stupid") no one actually made.

amen
 

Gavin

booty bass intellectual
Everyone's too stoned?

Leftists are too wary of being branded conspiracy theorists, deciding that arguing about MSM talking-points/commonsense and baiting 9-11-truthers is "more productive": see http://leninology.blogspot.com/2007/07/ones-divine-incipience.html

Even the copious documentation of CIA involvement in the drug trade is dismissed out of hand as nutty because it doesn't fit with established commonsense narratives -- tell Your Average American Citizen CIA introduced crack into the black community to destroy black radicalism and see what happens. Like asking some IT fatass to join in open class warfare is somehow MORE credible.
 
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