Datacide and Anti-Germanism?

bunnyhausen

bunnyhausen
The new issue of Datacide landing on my doormat this morning (thanks JE!) has prompted me to pick the Dissensus collective brain on 'Anti-German-ism'.

Now from what I understand it's a fraction of the German ultraleft mostly concerned with self-flagellation for the horrors of Nazism (to the extent of praising Bomber Harris for his splendid work on Dresden / wishing he'd finished the job off properly) and countering the perceived antisemitism of the 'orthodox' left with gleefully enthusiastic pro-Zionism. (That's almost certainly a gross oversimplification, I know)

Anyway, it's the one aspect of the Datacide / Praxis axis that makes me a wee bit uncomfortable (particularly reading about an AntiDeutsch organised 'Anti-Islamic' march through the (predominantly Turkish/Muslim) Neukolln district of Berlin - WTF??)

While that particularly nasty bit of racist provocation isn't necessarily anything to do with CF / Praxis / Datacide (it was reported on the praxis-related c8 forum), it does seem that the criticisms of antisemitism on the part of the 'anti-imperialist' left / 'Israel-has-a-right-to-defend-itself' rhetoric coming from that camp often goes somewhere beyond old fashioned Trot bashing and into realms of Daniel Pipes / Melanie Phillips neocon quackery.

It's all dreadfully confusing. Anyone else here have an opinion on this particular strain of Deutscher ultraleft factionalism?
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I've not seen any overt anti-deutsch stuff in the mag and most of the writing about anti-semitism I can recall related to industrial acts like Muslimgauze. But I do remember the anti-imperialist left and zionism article being a bit odd.

Generally I think the anti-deutsch stuff is (on the one hand) a bit too ultra left for its own good, in that it would be quite hard to win over many people by having the name of your movement as "anti- [the country they live in]". It also seems like a slightly bizarre inversion of nationalism for what I guess would be internationalist communists.

On the other hand, its support for Israel and taking sides in inter-imperialist wars suggests to me that it is not ultra-left enough.

None of this is particularly helped by most of the stuff being in german, or the fact that it is an umbrella term for a number of tendencies, or the fact that it mainly seems to exist at the level of a sect - preaching to other left groups.

I find the anti-working class sentiments expressed in this article very troubling:

The xenophobic outbursts and the growing nationalism after the German “reunification” in 1990 made the simplified old-school-left distinction between a progressive working-class versus a reactionary upper-class more and more ridiculous. Those burning down the homes of refugees, waving German flags and shouting fascist slogans were for the most part members of the working-class. [...] It became clear that an emancipatorical left cannot rely on the German working-classes but must stand in opposition to the vast majority in this country; a majority who advocates racism, anti-Semitism, nationalism, a majority with a deep authoritarian disposition and a majority that did not change too much since their parents or grandparents committed the most horrible crime in mankind's history: the mass murder of six million European Jews.

http://www.copyriot.com/sinistra/reading/texte/antigermans.html
 

bunnyhausen

bunnyhausen
At a cursory glance there's a fair few other dubious contentions in that article. I'll have a proper gander when my eyes aren't completely glazed over.

It's true that the print magazine hasn't contained too much overt Anti-Deutsch-ism, but it's hard not to read the articles on Muslimgauze' antisemitism (overall a well argued article, fwiw), for example, or the current article on Swiss banker Francois Genoud and Palestinian nationalism through that particularly skewed ideological prism.

Anyway, this is probably a discussion for the C8 forum if anywhere, rather than Dissensus, but thanks for the link to that article - there's not much online on this subject at all for non-Deutsche-speakers.

Anyway, hope the Datacide conference went well. Looked fun.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
yeah I'm still reading the current issue and have stuck to the music pieces (and very good anti- 9/11 conspiracy theorists piece) so far.

Thanks for mentioning it anyway, it is interesting, and a bit weird.
 

josef k.

Dangerous Mystagogue
I don't know much about this subject, but can offer what I do.

The anti-Deutsch position is most associated with a journal called Bahamas, and grew-up in response to German reunification, in opposition thereto. They have a special relationship with Israel and are extremely sensitive to antisemitism, to the extent that they have often swung into Islamophobia...

There is quite a good thread on this here: http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/marxism/2006w24/msg00284.htm
 

john eden

male pale and stale
That link looks good josef - one to print out...

WRT to Israel and anti-semitism I suppose there is also a reaction against the left groups who support the PLO etc.

But again, choosing sides is still choosing sides. There is that Monsieur Dupont quote which goes something like "the only thing more stupid than nationalism is nationalism for someone else's country."
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
I find the anti-working class sentiments expressed in this article very troubling:

http://www.copyriot.com/sinistra/reading/texte/antigermans.html

But hasn't it been the case, historically, that revolutionary parties of both the extreme left and extreme right have tended to have a leadership or vanguard drawn from the middle class and a working-class rank and file?

Although 'middle class' probably meant educated intellectuals/academics in the case of socialist/Marxist movements and minor industrialists and military officers in the case of national socialism/fascism, I would guess.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
But hasn't it been the case, historically, that revolutionary parties of both the extreme left and extreme right have tended to have a leadership or vanguard drawn from the middle class and a working-class rank and file?

Although 'middle class' probably meant educated intellectuals/academics in the case of socialist/Marxist movements and minor industrialists and military officers in the case of national socialism/fascism, I would guess.

That is true, certainly in the UK, but I expect a bit more from the german left...

It just seems bizarre that people from that end of the political spectrum would:

a) not even attempt to identify themselves as working class
b) not identify the victims of racism as being working class
c) would give up the german white working class entirely and attack them, and the nation state for being racist/nazi whatever instead of trying to figure out the causes of this and provide a alternative / attack the causes.
 
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