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I don't understand why people always extrapolate to an impossible scenario. I don't think Ukraine or the NATO powers are going to attempt to subjugate Russia. Have to see what happens with the Spring offensive. Russia will have to be forced towards the 2014 borders, they won't go willingly.

Seeing as one concrete outcome of the war is Finland joining NATO, surely then Putin will call it off immediately?

It's the how of getting Russia to that point. Prolonged military defeat is the only way that's going to happen. De-escalation now will lead to a retrenchment of the 2014 borders.

Losing Crimea or having that seriously challenged will be the pinch point I think. Might lead to nukes or a chemical weapons attack, Idk.

That was what I was thinking The thing with the anti-war left (which is not Vimoty, I know) is that they never spell it out Cos the logic means if you launch a war of aggression, threaten to nuke everyone when you're challenged, you will be rewarded. Not at all a recipe for peace.

Which means what precisely?

Share your opinion stick it in their honky faces

Are you about to say she's analogous to trans people in some way?

I can't help but see it as pretty fucking racist when they turn to ME politics. They talk over local journalists and have this unearned privilege that buys them a pass time and time again.

Yeah, I don't have any disagreement with what Droid wrote above. The curse of the old white men blights journalism in a number of different ways - Hersh and Pilger are two obvious examples in the "anti-imperialist" camp. Simon Jenkins in The Guardian is another one. Consistently wrong over a...

In general, I'm suspicious of Hersh as a source. His reporting on Syria is absolutely shit, he *could* be right here though, I guess. Thread on Hersh was literally just reading:

Do you guys have any sense who did it or might have done it? I haven't followed the story at all.

Tankies from the SWP have just lost an "anti-war" vote they constructed in the NEU (my old union). Great 'cos they're cunts but the numbers are still a bit close for my liking.

Yeah in what fucking miniscule % of cases is it an issue?

And "collapse" is a sufficiently elastic term that I feel Vimothy could wriggle around in it enough to come out with his "war is bad,m'kay" message whatever the circs.

Russia have huge manpower reserves. I don't know how Ukraine's stand up against that tbh. But the spring offensive is what to watch for. i mean, could go disastrously wrong I guess? But Russia seem to have literally no discipline as a fighting force. I hate to go so armchair general, I'm no...

Disliking fascist states invading neighbours countries and committing genocide doesn't make you a neocon.

It was a cap in hand moment and Putin left basically in hock to China. They're going to benefit from cheap oil and Russia got fuck all apart from nominal support.

They've lost literally thousands upon thousands around Bakhmunt, squandered a huge amount of manpower for minimal gains. There will be a spring offensive soon and most probably, Russia will get their arse handed to them. All those new tanks are going to steam through their lines and they will...