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Thread: Scorsese is stupid

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyL View Post
    Gangs of New York was the worst I've seen by him. Unbelievable dreck.
    Yeah, I hated that one. I still can't believe that was Scorsese. I can't even work out what he was trying to do. It was just stupid. I've never liked DDL either. People rave about him, but I can't think of a performance of his I've enjoyed.
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  2. #17
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    Goodfellas is 5 stars but it's hardly profound. Same goes for The Irishman really, although the Irishman has more scope to it in terms of showing the influence of the mob on politics/history.

    King of Comedy and Taxi Driver are his masterpieces afaic. Nothing stupid about those ones.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  4. #18
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    DDL was a force of nature in There Will Be Blood and I also thought he was great in Phantom Thread. But I know you don't rate PTA so whatcanyedehhh.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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    The problem with mob movies that don't idealise the mob (such as the Godfather) is that mobsters are mostly quite boring people. They're crafty but stupid. You have to be a bit dim, as a general rule, to be so good at intimidating and killing people. That's also the issue with Wolf of Wall Street, I suppose. He's showing the emptiness of these people's lives but that makes those movies a bit empty, too.

    The Sopranos got around this by making Tony Soprano a bit implausibly deep and conflicted, and going to a therapist. The more goonish mafiosi in that are side characters, walk-on parts.

    And of course they're very seductive, too. They make crime seem cool in spite of themselves. Although what I like about Goodfellas is the slow but sure unpeeling of that glamour. Everyone dies. (Ditto The Irishman.)

    I watched that 'Legend' the other night, about the Krays. It's a good exercise to watch that b2b with Goodfellas because Legend is a sort of wannabe Scorcese flick that is piddling away in the Championship division mid-table while Goodfellas is eyeing the European cup. (The Godfather 1/2 are probably lifting it though.)
    Last edited by Corpsey; 28-11-2019 at 06:06 PM.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by version View Post
    Apparently The Irishman casts a colder eye on the mob thing and feels somewhat critical of those earlier films.
    Goodfellas ends up cold on the mob, I'd say. They all turn on each other like jackals. All dead or in jail. People always remember the more glamorous bits, of course. That's the problem with glamour.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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    Re. Taxi Driver (and I suppose Mean Streets), I think it kinda caught or helped define the zeitgeist at the time. Those gritty images of edgy New York street culture that you later see added to by hip hop. Updating noir from the 50s to something relevant.

    I rewatched King of Comedy recently. The performances and script are brilliant but I found the central premise hard to relate to 'cos celebrity and entertainment culture has changed so much. It felt a bit like something out of the ark.

  9. #22
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    Both those movies are still relevant IMO. You can see 'evidence' of this in the success of Joker, which rips them both off.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

  10. #23
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    That was why I watched it again!

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    The other thing that Sopranos did brilliantly was bring his family into it. In The Irishman there's quite a few scenes where DeNeiro's daughter is staring at him so as to suggest she's judging him, but she never actually says anything. The Sopranos explored that feeling of moral ambiguity in his kids, and in his effect on them, and the hypocrisy of his firmly Catholic wife.
    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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    Αι ψυχαί οσμώνται καθ΄ Άιδην.

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  14. #26
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    Edie Falco's performances in The Sopranos were an absolute dramatic highpoint for me. Incredible.

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    i watched mean streets again recently and have to admit i got a bit bored by the end. i think scorsese is great at the odd sequence (there's a good few in goodfellas! somethingh about that bit where he does a line of coke and you get the blues song coming in at the same time... i tihnk that's his thing, the odd perfect marriage of sound and vision), but over time, you realise a lot of his films don't hang together so well as stories. he's never written his own scripts, which i think makes a difference.

    taxi driver, for me, is as much a schrader film as it is a scorsese film.
    but then filmmaking should be a collab effort anyway - only really kubrick in that era who was a proper auteur i would say?

    i much prefer abel ferrara to scorsese, although he is of course patchy as hell. scorsese famously said of 'bad lieutenant' that it's the film he wished he could have made out of 'last temptation' (absolutely awful film).

    i think scorsese's spiritual dimension is a bit lacking. he's kinda just a kid excited about filmmaking, rather than someone doing deep transcendent things, even if that's what he wants to do (wouldn't we all).

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    His films are one thing, but I don't think he's stupid 1) because he's an enthusiastic advocate of Mario Bava and 2) he's a very important person in the rescue and restoration of the films of Powell and Pressburger.

  17. #29
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    that's definitely true. he's a proper cinephile alright. i guess he's just not lived enough outside movies.

  18. #30
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    i think scorsese's spiritual dimension is a bit lacking. he's kinda just a kid excited about filmmaking, rather than someone doing deep transcendent things, even if that's what he wants to do (wouldn't we all).

    Mean Streets, maybe? Though this is mostly Catholic guilt. I remember that scene still with Harvey Keitel and the flame.

    I watched a couple of Ousame Sembene (Borom Saarat/Black Girl) films recently that were both Scorsese restorations.

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