Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 95

Thread: The Center Blows Itself Up: Care and Spite in the ‘Brexit Election’

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    OK I hear you about leverage. And obviously I'm complaining after the fact. We have no leverage on almost everything. But I do think it's an important mindset for whatever we do to understand that we have been robbed and cheated on this particular issue and many others. I guess that's all I'm saying. Anger is an energy and all that.
    At the moment I don't feel very connected to the UK, I've seen a lot of people saying that they won't be coming back and at the moment that's my thought although I am at least self-aware enough to recognise I'll probably change my mind tomorrow. Certainly when I am better at Portuguese (we are having lessons) I will seriously consider citizenship (or if Scotland leaves the UK I could apply there as my grandmother was from Orkney).

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North East London
    Posts
    6,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IdleRich View Post
    OK I hear you about leverage. And obviously I'm complaining after the fact. We have no leverage on almost everything. But I do think it's an important mindset for whatever we do to understand that we have been robbed and cheated on this particular issue and many others. I guess that's all I'm saying. Anger is an energy and all that.
    At the moment I don't feel very connected to the UK, I've seen a lot of people saying that they won't be coming back and at the moment that's my thought although I am at least self-aware enough to recognise I'll probably change my mind tomorrow. Certainly when I am better at Portuguese (we are having lessons) I will seriously consider citizenship (or if Scotland leaves the UK I could apply there as my grandmother was from Orkney).
    OK. I do get that.

    I am very apprehensive about that mindset. I think to achieve the large scale social change we both want, we are going to need to get quite a lot of people who voted Brexit on board.

    I'm going to do that by ignoring Russia (and Brexit where possible) and focussing on the kind of stuff I mentioned upthread. (I appreciate that this is both irritating and problematic)

    How are you going to get people who voted Brexit on board?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    Well this is a tricky thing.
    I suspect that Brexit is gonna be a fucking disaster. People will lose their jobs, services will get worse, medicines will not be available etc Some people will, I hope, realise at this point that they have been conned. You know I can see this kind of scenario where someone is saying let's do x and they're told they can't cos of Brexit and they're ok then how about y and the reply is yeah we used to do that... and eventually the penny will drop. Of course there are entrenched people who will neve ever be persuaded by this or by anything. But that's the case with any issue - ignoring Brexit there are True-Blue-Tories who will never be swayed. I mean we saw that in the election with those people saying "Public services have got worse and worse, this has been fucked and that and so on" "and who do you think will fix it?" "Definitely the Tories" - it just doesn't make sense. But the point is you can't win round the unchangeable so you have to concentrate on those that can.
    But there is another issue here. I can't hope that Brexit is the failure that I predict. I (weirdly, for my sins) actually like Britain (and hate it too of course) and I don't want it to go backwards, I don't want my friends and relatives and so on to suffer, so I have to hope Brexit is not as bad as predicted. In which case maybe it didn't matter so much.... I just don't think that is going to happen.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    18,750

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    What is the Labour Party going to do?
    Now? Fuck it all can do, as you've pointed out. Might've been an idea to try and do something before stupidly voting for an early election that it was guaranteed to lose badly.

    Might've been an idea to oppose the whole stupid project five years ago, in fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by woops
    i hate sigs

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    Two narratives which are going to be important in this I think.
    There is a statistic doing the rounds at the moment saying that Brexit has ALREADY cost more than the entire sum of money paid into the EU by the UK in its forty plus year membership. The standard Brexiter reply is to blame Remoaners for delaying Brexit and saying that the cost is down to uncertainty. Obviously this is bollocks cos the uncertainty was inherent in the Brexit vote, and the main delay was caused by the ERG voting down May's deal (which we basically ended up with anyway) and even after the end of Jan there will be more uncertainty and cost. And when it's done there will be even more cost. Of course like all the best lies there is a tiny grain of truth in it in that parliament did slightly delay and probably add a tiny bit of cost. But whatever, you're gonna read this a lot in the near future. As people predicted, it's the argument that Brexit would have been a success except for Remainers... hopefully no-one is dumb enough to credit that....
    The other thing is when people start noticing what they've lost cos of Brexit. Like that guy having to join a non-EU queue and blaming it on vindictive Europeans - we're gonna hear a lot of how the EU are attacking us and being nasty to punish us. Again there is a grain of truth. But basically people are gonna moan about not being allowed to do what EU members can do and blame the EU for it despite it being LITERALLY exactly what they voted for.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North East London
    Posts
    6,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Now? Fuck it all can do, as you've pointed out. Might've been an idea to try and do something before stupidly voting for an early election that it was guaranteed to lose badly.

    Might've been an idea to oppose the whole stupid project five years ago, in fact.
    What's your plan Tea? You're a fully paid up member of the opposition so we're looking to you for some strategy here!

    Surely you're not just going to spend the next 5 years saying coulda woulda shoulda and telling me I've got it all wrong?

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    Now? Fuck it all can do, as you've pointed out. Might've been an idea to try and do something before stupidly voting for an early election that it was guaranteed to lose badly.
    Exactly. All the people who were debating about the trustworthiness of the LDs have moved on to arguing about the new Labour leader. I'm feeling it hard to get up much enthusiasm for the debate. The battle is lost, Brexit is gonna happen, the Tories have a huge majority to do as much damage as they want over the next five years - to services, the NHS etc but worse, to the way democracy functions. It's going to be harder for Labour to win the next election as boundaries are going to be re-drawn and the courts' powers to oversee things reduced. It's a fucking mess. And that Private Eye article shows that Labour and LDs bear a huge responsibility for it for allowing this election to take place.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North East London
    Posts
    6,353

    Default

    Fuck's sake lads, get a grip.

    And spend less time on twitter.

    1741b2b01d73fd86ab511a25e1cc4574.jpg
    Last edited by john eden; 15-01-2020 at 02:56 PM.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to john eden For This Useful Post:


  10. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    I was warm, almost twenty degrees most days.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to IdleRich For This Useful Post:


  12. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    10,267

    Default

    I hope I'm wrong but I really think this election has been a serious disaster. The worst in my memory if not in yours.

  13. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North East London
    Posts
    6,353

    Default

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
    it is still a beautiful world.

  14. #87
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    East Loondon
    Posts
    2,721

    Default

    🥤
    @bobfrombrockley
    This excellent piece by @donflynnmrn
    in the latest @Chartist48
    is 100 times better class analysis of the Labour defeat than that Graeber article everyone seems to be sharing.

    https://www.chartist.org.uk/after-the-deluge/

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to DannyL For This Useful Post:


  16. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    18,750

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john eden View Post
    What's your plan Tea? You're a fully paid up member of the opposition so we're looking to you for some strategy here!

    Surely you're not just going to spend the next 5 years saying coulda woulda shoulda and telling me I've got it all wrong?
    Well I might indulge in some impotent moaning - I am British, after all, and there are certain standards that have to be maintained.

    Of course I will use my vote to try and ensure that someone who stands at least a chance of not being totally useless becomes the next party leader.
    Quote Originally Posted by woops
    i hate sigs

  17. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    North East London
    Posts
    6,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Tea View Post
    Well I might indulge in some impotent moaning - I am British, after all, and there are certain standards that have to be maintained.

    Of course I will use my vote to try and ensure that someone who stands at least a chance of not being totally useless becomes the next party leader.
    Are you able to tell us who you think the credible candidates are? (Secret ballot nothwithstanding)

    I don't really give a monkeys so I won't give you a hard time about it, but would be interested in yours (and other LP members) thoughts.

  18. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    29,787

    Default

    I'll give him a hard time if he uses the word 'twaddle' again though

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to luka For This Useful Post:


Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •