Wuhan Killer Sneeze (thanks Tea)

comelately said:

No. That old person was going to die anyway. Their death in no way belongs on the scales of equivalency. Stop being so mawkish.

I know Luka doesn't do logic and stuff, but surely there comes a point when you realise your flippant argumentation merely demonstrates an inability to meet the argument head on. Slippery slope tropes like 'Fouth Reich here we come!' are similarly thought terminating.

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I don't think Rich is being mawkish and I do do logic, just not your sixth form debate club style logic with its ridiculous jargon of steel men and straw men and so on. I find it embarrassing.

Everyone was going to die anyway, at some point.

Obviously the Peter Hitchens argument is always there in the background as a kind of awful what if we all have to acknowledge. That's why I posted the Peter Hitchens piece. To acknowledge it. Maybe this is a terrible mistake. Maybe we should just carry on with our lives and whoever dies, dies. It's nature's way.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

Mr. Tea said:

Yes, patty was taking the piss out of my post. (Although anyone with any knowledge of eco-fascism and the origins of Nazism in the early green movements will know that it was entirely apposite.)

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Yes, and because I went to a Buddhist place for a few weeks, like nature and have some vaguely hippyish leanings I'm on the Hitler radar because I made a sarcastic remark. Calm yourself down to a mild panic, Tea.

well it's Tea isn't it you know what he's like. He has his routines.

Peter Hitxhens wants to go back to normal. I mean, not just in the face of the virus but in its aftermath. And a lot of us don't. So that is another factor in all this.

A lot of us want The Great Transformation to happen. And we can't help seeing the virus as its harbinger.

Chirp chirp

Alright Patty! It's only Tea! It's just what he's like. dont let it rub you up the wrong way. Just take the piss gently and move on like everyone else does. Like you did initially.

pattycakes_ said:

Yes, and because I went to a Buddhist place for a few weeks, like nature and have some vaguely hippyish leanings I'm on the Hitler radar because I made a sarcastic remark. Calm yourself down to a mild panic, Tea.

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FFS, I didn't accuse you of being a proto-Nazi! I'm fully aware your original comment was made in jest. But there are people who think like that in all seriousness, and that sort of generalised misanthropy is the very last thing that's going to help us get through this crisis (meaning the ongoing, global ecological crisis, of which this current pandemic is just a tiny facet).

We fuckin knowwww

Ever since third called me an old whig in that tag I've been very sensitive about it all.

luka said:

well it's Tea isn't it you know what he's like. He has his routines.

Peter Hitxhens wants to go back to normal. I mean, not just in the face of the virus but in its aftermath. And a lot of us don't. So that is another factor in all this.

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More in this vein


WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

All caps so you know it's serious

pattycakes_ said:

Calm yourself down to a mild panic, Tea.

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Robert Barnes
@Barnes_Law
Replying to
@TomFitton
and
@realDonaldTrump
If Trump saves us from the Depression everyone else was leading us into by reversing the country's course on this, I am going to build a statute to him in my front yard (paid for by my successful bets he has won for me).

luka said:

I don't think Rich is being mawkish and I do do logic, just not your sixth form debate club style logic with its ridiculous jargon of steel men and straw men and so on. I find it embarrassing.

Everyone was going to die anyway, at some point.

Obviously the Peter Hitchens argument is always there in the background as a kind of awful what if we all have to acknowledge. That's why I posted the Peter Hitchens piece. To acknowledge it. Maybe this is a terrible mistake. Maybe we should just carry on with our lives and whoever dies, dies. It's nature's way.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ENS-shutting-Britain-REALLY-right-answer.html

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Calling something 'sixth form debate club' is a very first year at university thing to do. But ultimately I didn't use either of the terms you find embarrassing, even though I could have. So it seems a weird thing to complain about.

Not on this thread perhaps. But you have learned what you think of as logic from online self improvement clubs and politics debate forums. I find it a bit gross. But I don't want to bicker about it. Waste of time and emotional energy. I think you are allowed to focus on the economic over the health crisis.

I think we have space for that. Matthew Woebot and Barty both share that view. I give you permission and my blessing to carry on making that valid argument.

Trump and Johnson both share that view also, clearly. So does Peter Hitchens. It's a mainstream thing and we should have people here that advocate for it I think. I'm not going to try and shut you down. I'm worried about it too although as I said earlier today I don't want to go back to normal, I want to live in a new utopian erotic wonderland after this is over. I want this to change the world irrevocably. In a good way.

luka said:

Not on this thread perhaps. But you have learned what you think of as logic from online self improvement clubs and politics debate forums. I find it a bit gross.

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No I'm a philosophy graduate who had compulsory modules in Logic. Talking about 'what I think of as logic' is straight from the Kellyanne Conway playbook.

comelately said:

No I'm a philosophy graduate who had compulsory modules in Logic.

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Well you fooled me. Good on you for getting a certificate of achievement and a gold star.

As I say I don't want to bicker about it or shut down your viewpoint. Waste of time isn't it.

this abstracted idea of some utilitarian generational choice on the table between minimising the economic fallout, inconvenience on the young and “saving a 91 year old who would have died in 6 months” is worth unpicking before it becomes a slogan. corse we all know its not a mutually exclusive choice if it exists at all

but its probably worth seriously trying to connect with the consequences of that choice.

theres this popular type of comment on daily mail climate change stories where terry in leamington spa will say something like “oh to see the world in a grain of sand, civilisations rise and fall, humanity is but one drop in the ocean of infinitude” which is all well and good but you can’t really trust they’d be saying the same thing come worldwide crop failures and the mass displacement of refugees to their garden etc.

and with this kind of abstract choice, we obviously know its not just a case of 91 year olds getting wiped off an electoral register. it’ll be people left to die in corridors, and the human cost of that experience that most people in western europe havent felt for many generations.

and as far as inconvenience on the young, well maybe this will sound flippant, but right after the election people were talking about 10 years of tory rule, dismantling of the nhs, anyone under 40 getting shafted for the long term.

and whilst and i doubt we have any illusions about the likelihood of the Grand Commune being established in the wake of all this, that sense of stasis (which again might only be particular to certain people on twitter) seems a little less certain for better or worse.

Spot on Kumar good work elevating the tone (after I lowered it). Much appreciated.