US General blames Gays in the Military for Srebrenica massacre

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tyranny

Well-known member
Gays blamed for Srebrenica defeat

Dutch government officials reacted angrily today to claims by a retired US general that Dutch forces were overrun in Srebrenica in 1995 in part because of the presence of gay soldiers.

At a US congressional hearing yesterday on allowing gay soldiers to serve openly in the military, former Supreme Allied commander John Sheehan said there was a link between having homosexuals in the Dutch forces and the massacre at Srebrenica.

Bosnian Serb forces overran lightly-armed Dutch soldiers in the United Nations-designated enclave of Srebrenica in July 1995 and subsequently massacred more than 7,000 Muslim men and boys.

Reports on the hearing said Mr Sheehan blamed a post-Cold War effort by European nations to "socialise" their forces by, among other things, letting gays serve.

"That led to a force that was ill-equipped to go to war. The case in point that I'm referring to is when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs," Mr Sheehan said.

"The battalion was under-strength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off, and executed them."

Carl Levin, chairman of the US Senate's Armed Services Committee, asked: "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it was because there were gay soldiers there?"

"Yes, they did. They included that as part of the problem," Mr Sheehan said, according to a webcast on the website of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The Dutch Defence Ministry issued a statement calling Mr Sheehan's claims "absolute nonsense" and adding that gay Dutch soldiers routinely co-operate with the US military in the Nato mission in Afghanistan.

Renee Jones-Bos, the Dutch ambassador to the United States, said in a statement, "I couldn't disagree more" with Mr Sheehan, adding there was no evidence of his claims in the extensive record of research on Srebrenica.

Dutch press agency ANP quoted the head of the military union AFMP, Wim van den Burg, as saying Sheehan's comments were "ridiculous" and "out of the realm of fiction".

The events in Srebrenica remain a sensitive subject in The Netherlands, where a six-year investigation into the massacre led to the government's fall in 2002.
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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0319/breaking29.html


Just..... Wow.

:mad:
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
Oh come one, you've got to laugh at that--it's a hairs breadth away from "attracts enemy radar":

Homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they nudge people when they're trying to shoot, they always insist on sitting at "The Captain's Table"... they *muck about*. Imagine... the fear... when you go to sleep with a gay man on board and think "Oh God, when I wake up, will everyone be dead?" You can't run a ship like that.
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tyranny

Well-known member
Oh and laugh at it I did, especially given how spectacularly ill-timed it was given that the Dutch government has just collapsed over the fallout of their involvement with the Afghan adventure and their political support of the Iraq invasion - not to mention the fact that the Srebrenica enquiry back in 2002 also caused a Dutch government to collapse.

Never cease to be amazed at the sort of person who seems to be able to make the grade and become a high ranking General in the US high command though - they've had some proper old crackpots over the years...
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
When I saw this headlined on the Times I assumed it was some idiotic throwaway comment. Turns out it was evidence to the Senate committee on gays in the military, so although it's still idiotic, he actually thought this through beforehand. This bloke, Major Hasan, where do the US military get their right-wing morons ;)?
 
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scottdisco

rip this joint please
to treat tyranny's thread w the seriousness it deserves, does anyone know how likely Obama is to able to repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

(i know he rightly regards it as an anachronism.)

does anecdotal evidence (obv there's no other kind, i assume) suggest most serving US soldiers tend to back it?
are ambivalent?
think it should be dropped? etc.

given this loon's prior superiority one can only assume his words will carry a degree of weight.
 
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tyranny

Well-known member
scottdisco said:
to treat tyranny's thread w the seriousness it deserves, does anyone know how likely Obama is to able to repeal 'don't ask, don't tell'?

(i know he rightly regards it as an anachronism.)

does anecdotal evidence (obv there's no other kind, i assume) suggest most serving US soldiers tend to back it?
are ambivalent?
think it should be dropped? etc.

given this loon's prior superiority one can only assume his words will carry a degree of weight.
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Well I do know the gay soldiers who were arrested yesterday after the protest in front of the White House are still in custody...

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/03/19/gay-soldiers-remain-in-custody-after-white-house-stunt/
 
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tyranny

Well-known member
His wiki entry gives a bit more context on the rest of his statements to the Senate hearings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Sheehan

In 2010 he testified under oath to the US Congress that according to the chief of staff of the Dutch army at the time of the incident, the fall of Srebrenica was caused by lack of readiness related to the Dutch allowing openly homosexual men to serve in the military together with unionization and a decision to take a peace dividend because the Soviet threat was gone. During the same testimony, Sheehan stated that sexual attraction between servicemembers of the same sex would have a negative impact on readiness, while attraction between men and women in gender-integrated units would not.[1][2][3] Dutch Minister of Defense van Middelkoop, member of parliament at the time of the 1995 incident, stated that Sheehan's statement was "disgraceful," "unworthy of anyone in the military,". [4]General van den Breemen, Dutch chief of staff at the time of the Srebrenica genocide, called Sheehan's comments "total nonsense" and denied Sheehan's claim he himself would have suggested to Sheehan that having gays in the army has played a role in the Srebrenica massacre.[5] Prime-Minister Balkenende of the Netherlands stated during a press conference that Sheehan's words are "shameful", "unthinkable" and "beneath anything".[6]
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padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
wonderful, wonderful. best thing since hearing the endless string of old white Senators accuse Sonia Sotomayor of being a racist, while failing spectacularly to pronounce her name.

I would note that not all military leaders here are so out of touch with reality. Mullen & Gates both came out in favor of repealing the insanity that is DADT. This dude Sheehan is retired, i.e. a lot freer to spout crazy nonsense. it's a bit of a rear-guard action, anyway, as DADT is going to get repealed sooner rather than later. pretty appalling to hear if you're Dutch tho, especially if you happen to have been one of those gay Dutch soldiers at Srebrenica.

vimothy said:
"attracts enemy radar":
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I didn't know that but it certainly explains why the Japanese had such great success in sinking all those gay battleships during World War II.
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
tyranny said:
http://www.johannhari.com/2004/06/2...red-overlap-between-homosexuality-and-fascism

^ This old Johann Hari article might put a cat amongst the pigeons

:eek:
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gaystapo, queer as folk...gag-a-minute stuff

cheers for this, great article - no idea Rohm was quite so blatant about his sexuality

Rohm often referred to the ancient Greek tradition of sending gay solider couples into battle, because they were believed to be the most ferocious fighters. The famous pass of Thermopylae, for example was held by 300 soldiers – who consisted of 150 gay couples.
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can't believe they cut that out of the movie
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
crackerjack said:
can't believe they cut that out of the movie
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that's b/c it's not actually true. read down to the bottom. Hari confused the Spartans at Thermopylae with the Sacred Band of Thebes, a military unit b/c of a hundred years later which was composed of homosexual couples. the Spartans at Thermopylae may have had gay lovers but most of them were full citizens and thus likely married to women. that's not to say 300 didn't "straightwash" the Spartans, b/c it did, very much so. that ridiculous line where the king mocks the Athenians for being "boylovers", when the Spartans were if anything moreserious about their boyloving, in general. plus treating the Persian king as a like evil transsexual. all combined with the over-the-top homoeroticism. all of that stuff is from the original graphic novel by Frank Miller, who isn't exactly known for having progressive stances on gender & sexuality issues.

I though the column generally - while making a good point - was kinda swag. not only the mixup about the Spartans, but also all the parts about skinheads, as if all skinheads were fascists, or gay skinheads were fascists. I think Bruce LaBruce might have something to say about that.
 
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craner

Beast of Burden
The rest is accurate, and big + points for quoting that master of Nazi historiography, Joachim Fest. Proves Hari is reading good books.
 
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craner

Beast of Burden
On fascism and homosexuality, I urge you to read this masterpiece and this too.

George L. Mosse was an openly gay, Jewish academic exile from Germany who ended up at the Uni of Winsconsin and wrote some of the most profound books on Nazi and Fascist ideology ever written, eschewing right and left perspectives and mining archive material, like his mentor and associate, Renzo de Felice. Both these guys have been erased from intellectual history (outside of Italy) but their books are quite essential, I think, in tracing and analysing the bizarre meld of ideas and prejudice that led to fascism, Nazism, and their ultimate failure.
 
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