I'm a big big fan of what i think of as hardcore of the techno/rave strain but it's different from a lot of non-americans think of as hardcore (esp. Brits)...dumb speedcore and cheesy deathcore (stuff like tron or delta nine or australia's mark n or los angeles' own ron d core). stuff really appeals to the dumbass stoner d&d/skater boy in me, i guess. Anywayz does this have a place in anyone else's curriculum? does anyone else think bruce lee sampled into breakbeats is Flawless Victory, or what?
The Other Hardcore?
- Thread starter Diaz
- Start date
yeah deathchant included - hellfish and producer were on the first cd of electronic music i ever bought, ron d core's medical mayhem.Pearsall said:
they used to do a lot of stuff out here in l.a., i'd see them flyered up for the big events back in the day when they had hardcore rooms.
kingofcars
Well-known member
there was a pretty big scene for hardcore/gabber here in the states from say...96/97 til about 00/01.
ron d core in la, deadly systems in colorado, drop bass and later addict/distort in the milwaukee area, industrial strength in ny... probably some other scenes, too...
near as i can tell, as the marginal rave scene in the states (further) collapsed, a lot of these producers turned to other genres - idm, techno, hip hop, breakcore, ebm, etc. i know delta nine put a record out on drop bass last year, which was more or less old school midwest hardcore, but there really doesn't appear to be much in that vein being made at all now (outside of some french stuff and the deathchant scene, bloody fist is still somewhat active, i guess...)
as far as that being part of a continuum - it's easy enough to trace its roots (dutch gabber, metal, videogames), but i'm not entirely sure where the music goes after that. the planet mu take on it, hybridizing dnb, hardcore, and idm seemed to be the last real gasp there, and that stuff has been dead for 2-3 years anyway, yeah?
maybe im bein cynical...
...of course, i LOVE the stuff!
ron d core in la, deadly systems in colorado, drop bass and later addict/distort in the milwaukee area, industrial strength in ny... probably some other scenes, too...
near as i can tell, as the marginal rave scene in the states (further) collapsed, a lot of these producers turned to other genres - idm, techno, hip hop, breakcore, ebm, etc. i know delta nine put a record out on drop bass last year, which was more or less old school midwest hardcore, but there really doesn't appear to be much in that vein being made at all now (outside of some french stuff and the deathchant scene, bloody fist is still somewhat active, i guess...)
as far as that being part of a continuum - it's easy enough to trace its roots (dutch gabber, metal, videogames), but i'm not entirely sure where the music goes after that. the planet mu take on it, hybridizing dnb, hardcore, and idm seemed to be the last real gasp there, and that stuff has been dead for 2-3 years anyway, yeah?
maybe im bein cynical...
...of course, i LOVE the stuff!
dubplatestyle
Well-known member
does the scud/praxis stuff fit in here too somewhere? (though i remember scud saying he cleared the floor of a lot of speedcore gigs he played.)
i love this stuff too. "real" gabba can get pretty draining after about 15 minutes, and no one really plays the "atmospheric" stuff. but this stuff is pretty good at maintaining interest.
i love this stuff too. "real" gabba can get pretty draining after about 15 minutes, and no one really plays the "atmospheric" stuff. but this stuff is pretty good at maintaining interest.
kingofcars
Well-known member
dubplatestyle said:
the ambush/praxis contingent is something of a separate, but affiliated branch, imo.
some of the first real speedcore/deathcore releases are arguably the disciples of belial records on praxis (circa 94/95).... praxis didn't really stick with that sound obviously (and fortunately)... and some of scud's first releases are pretty speedcore oriented (check the awesome 12" he did as rude boy on kool.pop).
additionally, there were a lot of shared distribution networks for fringe speedcore, breakcore, and similarly uh...maligned genres in the late 90's.
the simple "shock" agenda of a lot of this stuff (i mean dj tron, late 90's industrial strength, kotzaak, bloody fist, etc) is what really separates it from the more complicated politics of scud, fringelli, hecate, and company - who, even on a fairly surface level, confront a lot of race/class/gender issues (and in a much more intelligent and tasteful way than DHR ever really managed to)...
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
They had just celebrated their ten year birthday, and then pulled the plug. A shame, as it was one of the most consistent labels in that scene. Mark Ns Overcast-album, 3minikomi said:
M Eternal, was a brilliant way to end things from him - heavy, groovy hip hop-cut up-influenced doom electro. Or something. Quite far from the speedcore mayhem most people expect from Bloody Fist.hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
There's a die hard following in Germany too, as far as I've heard. And probably other places as well. Sound Base has a lot of new stuff in this vein still: www.sbm-online.dekingofcars said:
Anyway, I used to be really into it, always searching for the fastest, noisiest, most brutal record yet made. A dead end, obviously, but somehow fun while it lasted. I still listen to some of it, but not often the really "stupid" stuff any more. The Fischkopf label remains my all time favorite in this field, but they had a much more experimental approach. Real avant gabber. Anyone should listen to Poka Michelsons No Name-records on Fischkopf and get blown away. They're as strange and scary and far out as any old musique concrete, but at the same time with a heavy physical impact.
Mark N hated playing in Los Angeles. He was at the 3rd rave I ever went to, one of them big sellout massives, I think it was Oracle 2, and people -his fans, ostensibly- threw beer bottles at him. ...first time i ever heard music live that scared, thrilled and made me want to do anything other than pretend to be a rock star. He played this adorable little toon with a speak 'n' spell...and was saying i believe 'fuck la' with it.
king of cars, it's not entirely dead- doormouse, fr'instance, is doing a lot of releases, though he's now out of miami and has a baby girl! and L.A.'s own Baseck and Minion and the related darkmattersoundsystem are doing some wicked wicked parties and productions. there's the mashup sound-system too, who've done some neat things. they're in europe somewhere right now. www.neomod.com is a decent distributor of a lot of this stuff, i believe dr freecloud's is opening a new store and though they are focusing more on breaks and house and such I believe they still stock hardcore, and
the hardcore/breakcore/speedcore stuff is doing a lot of cross over to the idm/noise kids, but it makes sense that a lot of the kids who first turned on to idm and laptop glitchy stuff here in socal were coming out of that lunatic *core scene and chilled out and got jobs or whatever. philadelphia supposedly has some good stuff going, and i hear the midwest still rocks it, although it's not not 220 bpm breakbeats and DMT anymore- but what is these days?
king of cars, it's not entirely dead- doormouse, fr'instance, is doing a lot of releases, though he's now out of miami and has a baby girl! and L.A.'s own Baseck and Minion and the related darkmattersoundsystem are doing some wicked wicked parties and productions. there's the mashup sound-system too, who've done some neat things. they're in europe somewhere right now. www.neomod.com is a decent distributor of a lot of this stuff, i believe dr freecloud's is opening a new store and though they are focusing more on breaks and house and such I believe they still stock hardcore, and
the hardcore/breakcore/speedcore stuff is doing a lot of cross over to the idm/noise kids, but it makes sense that a lot of the kids who first turned on to idm and laptop glitchy stuff here in socal were coming out of that lunatic *core scene and chilled out and got jobs or whatever. philadelphia supposedly has some good stuff going, and i hear the midwest still rocks it, although it's not not 220 bpm breakbeats and DMT anymore- but what is these days?
kingofcars
Well-known member
hamarplazt said:
fischkopf is indeed a fabulous label! amiga shock force, burning lazy persons, taciturne - they're all brilliant.
don't overlook stella michelson's work, either (poka's sister). she recorded as auto-psy and mouse, and also released a few records on fischkopf (as wel as on anticore, reverse, and probably some others)
there's a lot of similar french speedcore and broken electronics. check the hangar's liquides label and cavage records for equally bonkers, lysergic material.
kingofcars
Well-known member
Diaz said:
it's good to hear that there are still factions producing that kind of music. doormouse, especially, appears to have achieved a modest amount of fame and respect - which he certainly always deserved. i think its sort of a shame that the scene so decidedly cross-bred with the idm/noise scene, tho - it moves the music one step further away from the dancefloor.
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
Don't forget Eradicator ( = E-de Cologne = Patric Catani = Candie Hank).kingofcars said:
Stella is great too, but I've never been quite as amazed by her stuff, probably because she's so straightforwardly punishing, where Poka is polymorpheus and psychedelic. The Mouse EP on Homicide from last year, though, is really really great... almost cosmic in a very cold and scary way.kingofcars said:
Don't know if I'd call Cavage similar... it's usually much more breakcore than anything Fischkopf ever made... sometimes even with rap on it. But certainly brilliant. Hangars Liquides is the obvious heir to Fischkopf. If only their stuff wasn't so hard to track down.kingofcars said:
kingofcars
Well-known member
hamarplazt said:
oh, i wouldn't want to over look eradicator! 'fucking bitch called walker'
i missed the recent mouse record. the last one i picked up was on reverse, and it came out maybe 01/02... i agree, poka is the superior producer.... it's shocking they aren't better known or more respected.
is hangars liquides defunct now? the attila 12" they put out a few years ago still gets a lot of play from me... so fucking weird!
i think i used to get my hangars liquides records from either history of the future or from doormouse's msasive record source...i don't know where you woudl find that stuff now...
i've only got the first 5 or so releases on cavage, and they aren't too break heavy - more freaked out psychedelic electronics, some noise, some hardcore. not all that fischkopf-esque, but definitely possessing some of the same acid-damaged sensibilities as the michelson sisters....
i remember reading interviews with uht/saoulaterre years ago, where they talkd about the parties they were throwing in catacombs. their goal with these parties was to summon the rats from the sewers to take over the streets!!!!
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
Damn, I've not heard that one...kingofcars said:
Well, anyway, the last they did, at least as far as I've heard, was releasing a CD/DVD-concept-art-project kind of thing by La Peste called WTCXTC. Much more experimental electronica/glitch/classic avant garde stuff than hardcore. La Peste's a big Xenakis fan.
Ah, that explains it, I've mostly heard the newer ones. In particular Cavage08 and 09 is where I really think they're peaking. There's also the related label called Night on Earth, in particalar the compilation Night on Earth #2 is worth tracking down. More moody, downtempo stuff. Some of it actually really, really beautiful.kingofcars said:
kingofcars
Well-known member
hamarplazt said:
i i have wtcxtc on mp3 somewhere...it's good, yeah, but i prefer the older stuff, i think...
i checked over at www.c8.com for the night on earth mp3's....giving no 2 a listen right now... it's great! maybe not quite as head-scratchingly brilliant as the early cavage stuff, imo, but way better than anything being put out in the idm world. i'm gonna go digging through the crates tonight looking for old uht/saoulaterre 12"s....
btw - what kind of scene is the weirder french stuff being played at now? is there still any sort of free teknival movement that supports this kind of stuff? does cavage still do catacomb parties? or is it all the province of music nerds and rave-casualties?
i know people like manu le malin, radium, epiteth records, and that kind of harder straightforward french stuff still gets play at gabber oriented events... but where would one go to hear the new mouse 12", for instance?
hamarplazt
100% No Soul Guaranteed
I actually always thought that the free teknivals was playing the straightforward "hardtek"-stuff rather than the weirdness. Don't know how big the catacomb parties actually were... maybe that was music nerds too... Some activity definitely still going on though, it seems Stella Michelson and La Peste are playing some joint gigs now and then.kingofcars said:
As for uht/saoulaterre, the newest Cavage that I've heard (#12) is a straight saoulaterre/DXMedia collaboration, and really great... almost electro-ish in a way. The only early cavage I've heard is #03... how's that compared with the other ones from that period?