don_quixote

Trent End
just because loads of people would have done it doesn't mean suarez isn't a cheat
just because he got caught and punished doesn't mean suarez isn't a cheat
 

don_quixote

Trent End
this might sound ridiculous, but germany play a lot like forest did last season. that fourth goal especially looked like one forest might score.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
all this stuff about Suarez "cheating" - whatever. it's not his fault, or any other player's, that the rules are so stupid. you can't expect players under tremendous amounts of pressure to win not to take advantage of every possible opportunity to do so. I feel as bad for Ghana as the next dude, but that's absurd. in general I think dudes are mistaking cheating for taking advantage of stupid rules and bad officiating. diving is probably the single most unattractive thing about soccer (esp. to Americans), but as long as it works, and the refereeing is so utterly inconsistent, and there's no consequences for it, players will continue to dive. as long as there's no reliable video replay - which is succcessfully used by every single other major sport in the world - there will be complaints about offsides/lack thereof, wrongly disallowed goals, handballs, etc anyway, the upshot is that in the unlikely event that Uruguay goes on to win it all, it will not have been through cheating, b/c they didn't break any rules. Suarez is already, I'm sure, a national hero. also, anyone who says they wouldn't, esp. in the heat of the moment, have done exactly the same thing is almost certainly lying.
 

don_quixote

Trent End
they didn't break any rules? huh? as far as i could see he handballed on the line. that's breaking the rules. you're not allowed to handball on the line if you're not the goalkeeper.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
Argentina should have started Veron yday.

just for getting them into the semis, one assumes Suarez has Alcides Ghiggia vibes at the mo.

i am glad D_Q brought up his beloved Forest, as out w mates last night, we were all vibing on the late 80s/early 90s Forest as a model for the current Germans.

i must admit i want anyone but Spain to win this now as the tiki-taka is still not really doing it for me.

'City have bought Silva' is kind of a four word metaphor for the Premiership and English football.
 

hucks

Your Message Here
JENKS' son, legend :D

Correct grammar, as well, which gives me hope for today's youth


Interesting stuff on the Guardian podcast re why Spain aren't quite doing it just yet. Alonso doens't quite fit the tiki taka Barca rhythm - he's more direct. And obv Torres is horribly off form, cos Rafa's been playing him through injury for over a year now. Swap him for Fabregas, put Alonso alongside Busquets with Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta playing behind Big Dave. That formation will stop Germany from exploiting the space between midfield and defence which they did so well v England and Argentina.

But if any man can tactically outdo Del Bosque, it's Jogi Lowe. A football mastermind with great jumpers and awesome hair. WHAT A MAN.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Correct grammar, as well, which gives me hope for today's youth


Interesting stuff on the Guardian podcast re why Spain aren't quite doing it just yet. Alonso doens't quite fit the tiki taka Barca rhythm - he's more direct. And obv Torres is horribly off form, cos Rafa's been playing him through injury for over a year now. Swap him for Fabregas, put Alonso alongside Busquets with Cesc, Xavi and Iniesta playing behind Big Dave. That formation will stop Germany from exploiting the space between midfield and defence which they did so well v England and Argentina.

I'd be amazed if Spain didn't go with a 5-man midfield for this game. They can't just hang around waiting for Torres to rediscover his form against Germany, and they need to stop their runners breaking through.
 

computer_rock

Well-known member
at risk of sounding like a broken record i think spain still haven't really demonstrated any capacity or desire to stretch the game across the pitch. to beat germany i really think they are going to have to do this - schweinsteiger muller and podolski are not going to let them have the middle of the pitch. boateng in the left back position is probably the weak spot and i think pedro should start down the right flank. the problem is that with torres out of form they don't really have a reliable target man in the middle.

however they are probably going to line up with their normal formation like always and play exactly the same game they always play. to be honest i hope they do this and germany absolutely crush them.

it's going to be an epic midfield battle. i predict it could go 1 - 0 either way.
 

scottdisco

rip this joint please
Spain could do worse then Valdes, Arbeloa, Pique, Puyol, Capdevila, Busquets, Xavi, Fabregas, Pedro, Navas and Villa.

Jogi's three for two Topman shopping sprees are legendary, and he looks like he takes two bottles into the shower, class. elegantly wasted in '06.

as computer_rock says, they will presumably do what they always do. however Del Bosque seems a subbing master (Llorente against Por, Navas against Sui).
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Spain could do worse then Valdes, Arbeloa, Pique, Puyol, Capdevila, Busquets, Xavi, Fabregas, Pedro, Navas and Villa.

Jogi's three for two Topman shopping sprees are legendary, and he looks like he takes two bottles into the shower, class. elegantly wasted in '06.

as computer_rock says, they will presumably do what they always do. however Del Bosque seems a subbing master (Llorente against Por, Navas against Sui).

There seems to be an Iniesta-sized hole in your line-up.
 

nomos

Administrator
why didn't that paraguayan standing on the goal line try to knock villa's shot down with his hands?
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
they didn't break any rules?

it was a calculated risk, allowed by a rule that is, again, infinitely stupid. if you get caught breaking a rule and you're given the allotted punishment, then the crime has been redressed. absolutely, the punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case, but that can hardly be blamed on Suarez. if Uruguay had bribed a referee to disallow a goal or give Gyan a bogus red card, that would have been cheating.

my point is that the onus is 100% on FIFA. ditto for any qualms arising from the lack of video replay.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
if you don't want dudes to take advantage of a loophole in your rules, close the loophole. make what Suarez did a 5-game suspension, or award an automatic goal (in addition to the red), or both. if you don't want dudes to dive, hand out harsher penalties for diving. and so on.
 

don_quixote

Trent End
it was a calculated risk, allowed by a rule that is, again, infinitely stupid. if you get caught breaking a rule and you're given the allotted punishment, then the crime has been redressed. absolutely, the punishment doesn't fit the crime in this case, but that can hardly be blamed on Suarez. if Uruguay had bribed a referee to disallow a goal or give Gyan a bogus red card, that would have been cheating.

my point is that the onus is 100% on FIFA. ditto for any qualms arising from the lack of video replay.

so marion jones isn't a cheat because she got caught?
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
Wot Padraig said. Football's been slowly going down the shitter since "one of the game's nice guys" was allowed to get away with this.

Finger-wagging the players just allows the guilty parties (ie Blatter) to shift the blame. On their watch embarrassing theatrics have become an established and universal part of the game (I played yesterday, first time in ages, a bunch of old men and their sons, and it's pretty shocking watching 7-year-olds rolling around on the ground in feigned agony). Nothing will change until the rules do. I'd favour football's own Morality Police reviewing matches and dishing out retrospective punishments for playacting. People who cheat to get an opponent sent off should receive 3-game bans.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
so marion jones isn't a cheat because she got caught?

No, of course she' a cheat, but the point is people will go on cheating until the punishments for doing so are sufficiently punitive*.

Thinking about it, clearly in Jones' case they go on cheating even when the punishment is sufficiently punitive.....but in football they aren't.
 
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don_quixote

Trent End
i dont believe any punishment would have stopped suarez. he could have been banned for life and he would have still done it. but it is still cheating.
 
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