Things the Right get right

Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
IdleRich said:
On this one, I think there is something to be said. Maybe it is just facebook hysteria (that's where I keep reading about this) but I don't think it looks good that a newspaper that Corbyn writes for has a headline calling what's happening in Aleppo liberation. And it's the headline that's important, the article doesn't matter at all cos (as everyone pointed out) no-one is going to read it, but lots of people have seen the headline and they link it to Corbyn (I make no remarks about the left in general). People already seem to think that Corbyn is responsible for everything that is happening there (something else I don't understand) so this just adds to that. It is worth remarking.
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Corbyn of course gets more flack than is often warranted, but he consistently does himself no favours at all. Like when it was expected that his office might have something to say about the bloodbath in Syria a couple of months back, and the best Seumas Milne could come out with was "Yeah, the Russians and Syrians are massacring people - but America and Britain are just as bad!".

And yeah, of course hardly anyone's going to read the article. But it's hard to imagine it could say anything that could make the headline look like anything other than a sick joke.
 
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Beast of Burden
Milne is pro-Russia, Fisk is pro-Assad. This was case in 2011, 2013, now. Let's not mince words.
 
D

droid

Well-known member
craner said:
Weak.
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Even worse, some of them support it still. Much like the Maoist waving his red book over the mass graves of the cultural revolution, or indeed, the unreconstructed Stalinist applauding Russian massacres in Syria via the pages of the only British communist newspaper.
 
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droid

Well-known member
It is entirely possible to unreservedly condemn Assad and Putin's brutal bombing campaigns whilst also condemning Salafist massacres in eastern Aleppo, or indeed implicit US cooperation with ISIS in allowing a small army to flee from Mosul to retake Palmyra.

There are no uncompromised actors in this conflict.
 
firefinga

firefinga

Well-known member
droid said:
It is entirely possible to unreservedly condemn Assad and Putin's brutal bombing campaigns whilst also condemning Salafist massacres in eastern Aleppo, or indeed implicit US cooperation with ISIS in allowing a small army to flee from Mosul to retake Palmyra.

There are no uncompromised actors in this conflict.
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Shiite militias backed by Iran deserve an ."honorable" mentioning here too, me thinks
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
This is all true, but it doesn't alter the fact that the regime is responsible for ~90% of the death toll, and is being supported by Russia, which is deliberately bombing hospitals. As awful as ISIS are, they're essentially a sideshow.
 
D

droid

Well-known member
If you mean civilians, then that may well be true. If you're referring to the conflict as a whole - about 150,000 of the 400,000 casualties are pro regime forces.
 
D

droid

Well-known member
Who knows? The Syrian army has lost half of its number through desertions, draft dodging and casualties since the start of the war though - in fact the refusal of conscription was one of the major factors in the founding of resistance forces - so presumably many of those who wanted to, or could leave have done so.

Regardless, they were shot with rebel bullets and blown up by rebel shells.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Mr. Tea said:
I read it. I think it lets Israel off the hook a bit, but that aside, it makes a great deal of sense. I'm not familiar with the website so I dunno if it has a particular ideological slant, but from the look of it and knowing your interests, I'm guessing it might broadly be called anarchist? Good article, anyway.

(One bone to pick: calling George Galloway's thankfully defunct gang of gimps "R.E.S.P.E.C.T." is an uncalled-for slight on Aretha Franklin!)
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OK thanks, fair play.

Datacide would describe itself as a communist magazine. Of the non-Leninist, non-Trotskyist non-Stalinist variety.

I agree that piece is bit light on Israel. It's a slightly odd German left thing.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Corpsey said:
Could be something to do with Germany's historical record viz. jews?
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Yes it is pretty much that.

There is a very strange current in the German left called the Anti-Deutsch (which Datacide is not part of but is perhaps sympathetic to) that waves Israeli flags at demos and even had a slogan which said "victory to Bomber Harris" or something. Here is probably not the thread to get into them. I think there was something else on here about them a few years back though:

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=8413
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Corpsey said:
Could be something to do with Germany's historical record viz. jews?
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Whoah, enough with the Teutonophobia already! :mad:

john eden said:
OK thanks, fair play.
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For my part, it was silly to tar the whole of the hard left with the same brush as the MS, so sorry about that. Unfortunately, as is often the case, it's the more obnoxious/sensationalist groups and individuals that have the highest profile.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
And yeah, of course hardly anyone's going to read the article. But it's hard to imagine it could say anything that could make the headline look like anything other than a sick joke.
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I'm agreeing with you here. I'm saying that the headline is what's important cos that's what people are going to see. And I agree that the chances of the article somehow adding a nuance to that headline that makes it ok are minimal - but even if that somehow does happen it's irrelevant cos the headline is what is being shared to loads of people who wouldn't dream of reading the article. My point is that in this case it's entirely fair to judge the article, or at least the effect of the article, by the title.
All the Corbyn stuff does seem strange here, I get that people want a clear and principled position on this but the stuff I read is as if it's in his power to stop everything. People demand that he makes this entirely symbolic gesture and he doesn't make it - ok, he's wrong, move on, it's not the main issue of this conflict.
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
john eden said:
Yes it is pretty much that.

There is a very strange current in the German left called the Anti-Deutsch (which Datacide is not part of but is perhaps sympathetic to) that waves Israeli flags at demos and even had a slogan which said "victory to Bomber Harris" or something. Here is probably not the thread to get into them. I think there was something else on here about them a few years back though:

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=8413
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Is there a good book which explains the history of Isreal?

I know near enough to nothing about it.
 
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