Brexit Day
- Thread starter IdleRich
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IdleRich
IdleRich
I actually do understand that he's in a difficult position cos whatever he says risks alienating people. At least this points out that, as is, brexit is a fuck up and it allies keep focusing on the problems it causes - which will be many - and basically saying that they are not inevitable and that they are down to the Tories - in other words they are not Brexitproblems, they are Tory problems. Many of them probably are insoluble... though I guess, that he'd happily have the problem of being PM and having to solve them. In other words, cross that bridge when he comes to it, he won't be the first politician to do that.Keir Starmer has said Labour will “make Brexit work” and the statement has certainly divided people.
The Labour leader made the comments during an interview with BBC’s Andrew Marr on Sunday where he argued for “sensible adjustments” to be made to the deal negotiated by the government that currently stands with EU.
“It’s all very well saying get Brexit done, we’ve got to make Brexit work,” he told Marr when asked if he would be willing to renegotiate a deal to reduced the predicted economic fall-out. He made similar statements during his Labour party conference speech this year.
“What I’m not talking about is rejoining the EU, what I’m not talking about is ripping up the current agreement and starting again – nobody wants to be in that place,” he explained.
Keir Starmer has said Labour will ‘make Brexit work’ - here’s how people are reacting
Keir Starmer has said Labour will “make Brexit work” and the statement has certainly divided people.The Labour leader made the comments during an interview with BBC’s Andrew Marr on Sunday where he argued for “sensible adjustments” to be made to the deal negotiated by the government that...www.indy100.com
I wonder though, what if his slogan had been something like "Fix Brexit" which could mean make it work OR reverse it whichever is best?
I actually suggested that meaning it to be a sneaky way of saying both... but really, a stance which says "It's a mess now and I will take the best possible steps to sort out that mess whatever they may be" is pretty reasonable isn't it?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Are we just accepting, then, that taking *any* position on Brexit is lose-lose for *any* Labour leader - that that was the case for Corbyn (a natural Euroskeptic who had to pretend, for a while at least, to support our continued EU membership), that it's the case now for Starmer (a natural Europhile who is pretending, now, to embrace Brexit), and that it'll be the case for whoever comes next?
IdleRich
IdleRich
You don't think Fix Brexit would be a suitably vague slogan that would allow him aone wriggle room? I'm not sure why he came out and pinned himself down anyway, why did he have to say anything? A lot of people angrily saying they can't vote Labour... and a lot of people with a more nuanced opinion understanding his difficulties admittedly.
Just seems weird when the Tories have put themselves on the ropes and are falling in the polls.... Starmer suddenly pops up with a divisive statement and puts pressure back on himself.
And more generally, as Brexit seems to bring more bad news every day and apparently becomes less and less popular, how did our politics get so broken that doing the right and popular thing is electoral suicide?
Just seems weird when the Tories have put themselves on the ropes and are falling in the polls.... Starmer suddenly pops up with a divisive statement and puts pressure back on himself.
And more generally, as Brexit seems to bring more bad news every day and apparently becomes less and less popular, how did our politics get so broken that doing the right and popular thing is electoral suicide?
Murphy
cat malogen
You need to let the boomer generation go, as much pain as that includes for people like my Mum (who is pre-boomer and voted remain). You also have to be a pragmatist and leave it for a bit while focusing on everything the current regime isn’t doing, that includes all the main parties
We’ve had over a decade of austerity, endless services cuts eg my client numbers have gone from about 35 a week to over 80, how does focusing on Brexit remedy that? It’s not a staffing shortfall, rather a funding stream whittled down. How do we reform social care so our elders can die in peace? How do you restructure and reform the NHS? What’s brewing in the EU with immigration movements, wall building for Fortress Europa and Belarus?
It’s not giving up on a grand project rejoining, it’s parking it until the demographics actually favour your vote profile and various other major infrastructure needs are met. That’s no surrender (unintentionally sounds like Paisley), more all these other galactic sized problems aren’t going to remedy themselves if your priorities are focused on rejoining the EU
We’ve had over a decade of austerity, endless services cuts eg my client numbers have gone from about 35 a week to over 80, how does focusing on Brexit remedy that? It’s not a staffing shortfall, rather a funding stream whittled down. How do we reform social care so our elders can die in peace? How do you restructure and reform the NHS? What’s brewing in the EU with immigration movements, wall building for Fortress Europa and Belarus?
It’s not giving up on a grand project rejoining, it’s parking it until the demographics actually favour your vote profile and various other major infrastructure needs are met. That’s no surrender (unintentionally sounds like Paisley), more all these other galactic sized problems aren’t going to remedy themselves if your priorities are focused on rejoining the EU
IdleRich
IdleRich
But why mention at all now? Was the statement already planned before all the Paterson stuff so he thought he should stick to it?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh, as slogans go, it's totally reasonable (and, as you say, suitably open to interpretation).
Edit: having said that, 'fix' can also have the implication of 'rig' or 'falsify'...
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IdleRich
IdleRich
Well I just pulled that out of my arse without the benefit of focus groups or marketing teams, I'm sure that Labour could, if they wished, come up with a better slogan that didn't paint them into a corner. Or they could just copy the Tories and ignore their promises once victorious...
I'd guess so. The only reason it's being mentioned at all is 'cos fucking FBPE twitter has got hold of it and is crying tears of blood.
version
Well-known member
"Make Brexit Great Again,"
IdleRich
IdleRich
Many have pointed out that it suits the Tories to keep a kind of brexit perpetual war going as a nice rabble rousing slogan which identifies tangible enemies that we can all hate in the form of Johnny Foreigner and his quisling remoaner allies instead of looking too closely at corruption at home. Some would say that this is incompatible with their claim to have got Brexit done - and indeed it will need be entirely predicated on brexiter double-think, which may be optimistic in that most brexiters haven't yet mastered single-think.
But there is always the suggestion that brexit has been bollocksed up by Remoaners and the EU, despite the fact that Leavers have been in charge of the whole project since the Referendum and that one of the main arguments for Brexit was the fact that - as we held all the cards - the EU would be powerless to stop us doing precisely as we liked.
But there is always the suggestion that brexit has been bollocksed up by Remoaners and the EU, despite the fact that Leavers have been in charge of the whole project since the Referendum and that one of the main arguments for Brexit was the fact that - as we held all the cards - the EU would be powerless to stop us doing precisely as we liked.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I find the latter genuinely interesting in fact as it seems that Brexiters have had to find a position to explain how the EU despite being so much weaker fucked it all up for us. At first there was talk of EU intransigence but that didn't explain how we didn't use the stronger cards to stop them being so intransigent.
Now the strategy seems to be dark mutterings of the EU acting in bad faith - the idea appears to be that of course the UK held all the cards and would have negotiated a better deal, but somehow the EU broke the rules of diplomacy and cheated; this is the only position that (sort of) allows one to claim that Britain is a much -stronger power than the EU, able to dictate terns to them AND the EU fixed the terns of brexit that we are stuck with and anything that goes wrong is down to them.
Now the strategy seems to be dark mutterings of the EU acting in bad faith - the idea appears to be that of course the UK held all the cards and would have negotiated a better deal, but somehow the EU broke the rules of diplomacy and cheated; this is the only position that (sort of) allows one to claim that Britain is a much -stronger power than the EU, able to dictate terns to them AND the EU fixed the terns of brexit that we are stuck with and anything that goes wrong is down to them.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well as Umberto Eco noted, fascism demands an enemy that is simultaneously too strong and too weak.
version
Well-known member
I'm curious how the Tories will fight the next election. They can't point to their record as it's abysmal and they can't campaign on coming in and fixing things because they've been the ones in charge for over a decade.
I guess they'll keep pushing the culture war stuff and flatout lies about the opposition and hope the media help them drown out everything else.
I guess they'll keep pushing the culture war stuff and flatout lies about the opposition and hope the media help them drown out everything else.