George Floyd

[droid]

yall probably saw that the Defense Secretary came out today and unequivocally opposed Trump's threat to use active duty troops to quell protests?

that's something I had been wondering about, the willingness of the military to follow his orders

Esper is a Trump yes-man so if he's breaking with the President over this, clearly it's indicative of significant unease in the military establishment

Yeah, you were dead right about this. Ive been following this guy for a while, southern, ex-special forces, no nonsense, has been involved in police training etc... his perspective is pretty interesting, and dare I say it, encouraging.

 

[entertainment]

Anybody been following this Antifa established autonomous zone in Seattle?

 

[Leo]

yeah, I give it a day. maybe two.

 

[version]

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

 

[Mr. Tea]

“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

"Meet the new boss,
Same as the old boss..."

 

[Mr. Tea]

Anybody been following this Antifa established autonomous zone in Seattle?

[/annoying nasal nerd voice]
Isn't the consolidation of previously non-centralized power under an individual or a small bloc pretty much the exact opposite of "devolution"?

 

[john eden]

I'm not sure how much agreement you'd get on this part from someone who lives on a run-down estate where gangs basically do what the fuck they want. And if the argument is that the police aren't effective and should be abolished for that reason as much as for any other, that sounds pretty nihilistic. Like, you live in a high-crime area? Tough shit, deal with it.

the problem with this is that gangs are a minority that terrorise the majority. So that Colin Ward quote still holds true. And usually in the UK they can act with impunity in certain communities because the state, including the police, have already given up on the area.

The solution to all of this is creating real community where people look out for each other, which can be very hard.

Some comrades in Blackbird Leys organised an athletics club and also picketed the house of a local scumbag dealer, reoccupied a park that had been taken over by antisocial elements etc. Suddenly the local council and the cops started taking an interest...

 

[DannyL]

Yes, and I was going to say to Tea that he'd need to read CW to get a full sense of what he meant. He was using the idea of the law and our reflexive attitude to police to highlight our sociability, the way in which mutual aid already exists, and most potential criminality doesn't occur just 'cos of already existing social bonds and norms. Jon's example above is a good extension of these ideas.

 

[droid]

Anybody been following this Antifa established autonomous zone in Seattle?

Im sure things ain't all rosy in the TAZ, but you'd wanna be a certain kind of genius to believe a single word written by that shitbag.

A former fellow at the creatonist thinktank Discovery Institute, Rufo once cited neoliberal economist Milton Friedman as an influence on his thinking. The right-wing roots of his ideas are further exposed in his personal manifesto, titled “The Politics of Ruinous Compassion,” in which he cites Margaret Thatcher, the former British Prime Minister who was infamous for saying “there is no such thing as society.”

Well, there is such a thing as a society. And Rufo’s negative attitude toward the project of collective responsibility would harm the most marginalized in it. There’s also such a thing as history: While Rufo attempted to scrub his social media feeds of all signs of who he was before declaring his candidacy in September, he cannot hide his affiliation with the Trump-supporting Claremont Institute, an anti-marriage equality “policy” center that has come under fire for being tied to literal White nationalist groups.

Fare thee well, Christopher Rufo; We hardly got to know you

After alleging that he suffered harassment at the hands of the area “activist class,” conservative City Council candidate Christopher Rufo announced last week that he would be terminating his campaign to represent District 6 on the Seattle City Council.

www.realchangenews.org

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

you were dead right about this

it wasn't hard to call. American military leadership virtually never publicly opposes the President in that way.

for all his predictable rah-rah talk, Trump has a bad track record with the military - he's insulted POWs ("I like people who weren't captured"), pardoned the war criminal SEAL over the objection of the Navy, quarreled with respected officers like Mattis and H.R. McMaster, on and on. and military culture values honor, loyalty, respect, discipline - all things of which he has none. he consistently disrespects in way previously unthinkable for a President.

if it was a foreign war they'd probably still fall into line, but unleashing soldiers on Americans en masse is a completely different thing. it's never been done - the National Guard has been called for isolated incidents, but nothing like that. the American military has obviously done a lot of fucked-up things, but they aren't butchers. and they have professional pride.

I told you the republic has some resilience to it. in the longer run, we could well be in trouble, but it will be a decline, not an overnight collapse into blood and fire.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I know I keep bringing up Rome, but - Sulla only marched on Rome after 40 years of internal disruption and normalization of violence in politics. and even then all his officers except one refused to go (legionaries were by that point personally loyal to generals, so they had no problem with it).

usual caveat about difficulty of drawing direct historical comparisons, but we're not at that point. we've only just begun to normalize political violence.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

The solution to all of this is creating real community where people look out for each other, which can be very hard

john otm as usual

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I haven't been following that Seattle TAZ closely but it's hard to see it ending well

it's the kind of thing that screams provocateur - that's just pure speculation tho

I wouldn't be surprised if boogaloo elements try to embrace Raz Simone (if they haven't already)

 

[droid]

the American military has obviously done a lot of fucked-up things, but they aren't butchers. and they have professional pride.

All good, but I do have to disagree with this. Not all, obviously, but enough of them are butchers to have left a trail of millions of corpses. There's barely a corner of the globe that hasn't been touched by some US military atrocity.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I should have been more clear. I'm talking about the way the military view themselves - that the violence they commit is legitimate.

this would have been illegitimate violence

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

i.e. witness how much it upset military people to hear the U.S. described as a "battlespace"

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

if you want to argue about that worldview, sure, but it's a different argument

 

[Leo]

don't believe every looting story you read, crazy that it took GQ to call this out...

The idea that even during normal circumstances $2.4 million worth of Rolex watches could have been stolen so easily from the Watches of Switzerland store is preposterous. Before the coronavirus-related shutdown, Watches of Switzerland would remove watches from the floor and store them in a safe every night. And because the store hasn’t been open during the pandemic, there wasn’t even any merchandise in the store to begin with. Watch obsessives also laughed at the idea that Rolex, a brand with limited hard-to-find and buy watches, would have $2.4 million worth of merchandise just laying around.

That Viral “$2.4 Million Rolex Looting” Story? It Never Happened

 

[Mr. Tea]

don't believe every looting story you read, crazy that it took GQ to call this out...



That Viral “$2.4 Million Rolex Looting” Story? It Never Happened

Smh at the missed opportunity for a "not on their watch!" pun.

 

[version]