Explain to an american how lizz truss resigning can happen

[IdleRich]

Her party still controls Parliament, she's just wildly unpopular, so they can try again with someone else. It's different from a vote of no confidence, which (I believe) would trigger a new snap general election

Depends, a VONC in the leader would just trigger a leadership contest, if there was a VONC in the government that would trigger an election I think, but it's never happened in my lifetime.

 

[linebaugh]

Let me ask, why did they have to get into line in the US?

The unity of the two parties. Republicans were worried that a split would affect the results of the next election

 

[IdleRich]

Even still, its not like lizz truss personally wrote the plan no? It was written collectively by the party right? Thats how i understand it in america. When a president unveils his plan its more a showing to the other party 'hey heres what we all decided were gonna do'

No it was her plan. They voted for new leaders and they wanted to take the party in different directions, she had her own plan for a certain budget and she won the leadership contest on that, as opposed to others who wanted to do different things. So in a sense it was approved by the membership - 80,000 retired majors and their wives who live in Surrey.

 

[Leo]

Let me ask, why did they have to get into line in the US?

because election campaigns live and die on financial support. the republican national committee holds the purse strings on huge amounts of campaign money for party candidates, that's how Mitch McConnell gets people to get in line.

 

[shakahislop]

yeah, this is the puzzling part to me. of course scapegoats are needed in situations like this, but how was someone with those plans supported and voted in by party members in the first place if those plans were so obviously bad?

The party membership is just members of the public who have decided to become members of the Tory party. There's only about 100,000 of them. I could become a member tomorrow if I wanted. So it's a pretty niche set of people who make the final decision, who definitely don't have the expertise to understand how UK tax and spending policy will interact with financial markets.

 

[IdleRich]

The unity of the two parties. Republicans were worried that a split would affect the results of the next election

Here the party was split between those who believed in unity and those who thought that it was more important to call a spade a spade. In other words party unity wasn't strong enough to hold them to the line. Traditionally it has been, Tories are famous for in-fighting then getting it together to beat Labour.... not any more.

 

[Leo]

The party membership is just members of the public who have decided to become members of the Tory party. There's only about 100,000 of them. I could become a member tomorrow if I wanted. So it's a pretty niche set of people who make the final decision, who definitely don't have the expertise to understand how UK tax and spending policy will interact with financial markets.

so, your country is run based on the whims of a very small number of unqualified people.

that goes far in explaining why you are so fucked.

 

[shakahislop]

that's pretty fucked: have unrealistic views/policies, support the person who proposes those unrealistic policies, and then want to oust that person when their unrealistic policies fail.

It's different groups of people. It's the parliamentary party who have just kicked her off the throne. It was the party membership (essentially) who elected her, and they've had nothing to do with kicking her out really.

 

[IdleRich]

that's pretty fucked: have unrealistic views/policies, support the person who proposes those unrealistic policies, and then want to oust that person when their unrealistic policies fail.

Yep but this is the brexit mindset. We voted for the impossible and we demand it.

 

[linebaugh]

No partisan talk please we are getting past the point

 

[shakahislop]

so, your country is run based on the whims of a very small number of unqualified people.

that goes far in explaining why you are so fucked.

at the moment yes. but this is tempered by the fact that there are elections every five years, and if the Tory membership elects a nutter that's can't win a general election, they lose power. This is a very big constraint.

 

[IdleRich]

so, your country is run based on the whims of a very small number of unqualified people.

that goes far in explaining why you are so fucked.

Well it's clearly ridiculous that the Tory party membership chose Truss, it's been repeated since she came into power that what mandate she had came from 80k Tory members. I suppose you could ask, who else should choose the leader of the Tory party? You could also say that they shouldn't choose the PM so maybe they should have called an election - but they are terrified of an election cos they know they will lose.

 

[linebaugh]

Is it as simple as the british public doesnt veiw resignations a big deal? And thus the conservative party does not need to worry about the optics of this affecting upcoming elections?

 

[IdleRich]

No partisan talk please we are getting past the point

But I honestly think that this is the root of the problem. Brexit made it ok to vote for and demand the impossible and this poison has seeped into the Tory party and never been drawn.

 

[IdleRich]

Is it as simple as the british public doesnt veiw resignations a big deal? And thus the conservative party does not need to worry about the optics of this affecting upcoming elections?

No it's looks fucking ridiculous, but they were 35 points behind in the polls anyway so.... if the election was yesterday or tomorrow they would be obliterated, it can't get worse.

 

[WashYourHands]

omnishambles

 

[shakahislop]

Is it as simple as the british public doesnt veiw resignations a big deal? And thus the conservative party does not need to worry about the optics of this affecting upcoming elections?

I think they made a decision that although resignations look bad, it was probably better to do that than to have liz truss in charge at the next election.

 

[IdleRich]

Part of the reason theres no inner party mutiny in america is because said party would be worried about looking in dissaray and lose votes come time for midterms and the next election

I guess I'd say that there is normally a kind of self-preservation that holds them together, a line that doesn't break... but what when it breaks, I guess it's like an army when it's routed, or when the final straw breaks and the whole thing collapses, that has never happened before that I've seen but it's happened now.

 

[linebaugh]

I think they made a decision that although resignations look bad, it was probably better to do that than to have liz truss in charge at the next election.

So this could be put down in large due to liz truss being chosen by the party and not by the citizens?

 

[Leo]

I think they made a decision that although resignations look bad, it was probably better to do that than to have liz truss in charge at the next election.

like ripping off the band-aid, best to do it quickly. painful but brief.