Woke

[DLaurent]

I am fed up of people complaining about woke. I chat to a lot of the older generations in particular, and they moan on a daily basis about wokeness and snowflakes. What can we put this phenomenon down to? I think the right wing press and other organisations (I won't say Deep State organisations) have found a way to make people more right wing, at the same time as pacifying any actual Woke sentiment. People are being told what to think and it's a newspeak phrase.

I have tried to explain to them that this kind of thing is not a woke snowflake minority at the bottom getting their way, but a strategy for manipulating public opinion that comes from the top, but that means nothing to them. Am I right?

 

[DLaurent]

It is newspeak as the opposite to woke is asleep?

 

[sufi]

don't worry, it's a rearguard action - they aready lost the culture war

 

[Clinamenic]

don't worry, it's a rearguard action - they aready lost the culture war

Agree with Sufi here. Speaking as a moderate progressive, in terms of social progress, I do think the left has a way better game than the right. I definitely think academic social justice culture is out of touch in some ways, and provides plenty of fodder for right-wing anti-woke populism though.

That said, I feel like I’m sensing a shift in the cultural left in the US over the last couple years, where it feels like we have passed the crescendo of social justice passion. In other words, I feel like the Overton window (at least for Democrats) has shifted more toward Bill Maher as of late. Not sure if that is just because I’ve been transitioning out of art school culture though.

 

[Clinamenic]

Interesting that the term “mind virus” seems to have been popularized by right wing partisan media fixtures, referring to the spread of social justice cognizance (and any compulsive posturing that comes with it).

Personally I wish there was some way to replace the critical theory aspect of social justice discourse with just regular old compassion.

 

[Clinamenic]

I do think that, if we could surgically extract the critical theory stuff from the conversation, there would be a lot less conflict, and the essential message of social progress would remain: empathize with those of different backgrounds.

 

[sufi]

It is newspeak as the opposite to woke is asleep?

wokeness is thoughtcrime

 

[Clinamenic]

wokeness is thoughtcrime

'Tis so, according to noted psychovirologist Tucker Carlson.

 

[shakahislop]

I am fed up of people complaining about woke. I chat to a lot of the older generations in particular, and they moan on a daily basis about wokeness and snowflakes. What can we put this phenomenon down to? I think the right wing press and other organisations (I won't say Deep State organisations) have found a way to make people more right wing, at the same time as pacifying any actual Woke sentiment. People are being told what to think and it's a newspeak phrase.

I have tried to explain to them that this kind of thing is not a woke snowflake minority at the bottom getting their way, but a strategy for manipulating public opinion that comes from the top, but that means nothing to them. Am I right?

there's a lot of things contained within the term woke and i find i lack a set of vocabulary to say what i want to say about it normally. it's a lot of different things at once and it's never clear to me exactly which elements people are referring to when they talk about it. personally speaking i have to navigate a new set of social norms every day, what you could broadly call woke-ness is quite a prominent aspect of my life, a lot of it essentially being a set of different ideas that in my particular mileau you're expected to express and to support. the cultural conversation is as such that you sound like a total arsehole if you try to say much beyond the orthodoxy if it can remotely be construed as critical. i do a lot of just shutting up and not saying anything. the biggest blind spot is around class or just basic financial privilege i think, for example, but there's just no point in even talking about it i find. the woke thing is a wave that's expressed in different ways by different people, no-one has control over that obviously, and some people do use it for selfish ends.

my particular bugbear, coz i'm around them a lot, is rich girls who are thinking about gender disadvantage all the time and see the world in that way, but who have basically no conception of how easy their lives have been standing on an island of money. talking about disadvantage in the workplace at the same time as the delivery guy comes out of the cold and climbs five flights of stairs to give them their food coz they can't be bothered to walk down. it's a bit annoying but whatever, i doubt it but maybe the next wave of consiousness will take this stuff into account.

that said, it does feel like progress. a counterbalence against this interpersonal conversational grind is when i bump into something that woke (or you could say the 2010s) hasn't touched. the natural history museum in nyc for example hasn't got with the times and it is a bit stupid and offensive. you can say the same thing about 00s music writing. or all kinds of cultural production. something like the US office is pre-woke and is a combination of charming and jarring now. although to be fair again the most jarring aspect of it is the class stuff and probably no-one would give a shit about that even now.

 

[entertainment]

I do think that, if we could surgically extract the critical theory stuff from the conversation, there would be a lot less conflict, and the essential message of social progress would remain: empathize with those of different backgrounds.

this sort of appeal withers the instant it is said out loud. not that it's wrong but there is no oxygen for it to survive on the internet. the immediate impulse is to mock it, isn't it?

 

[okzharp]

"Woke" is a new ideology and its proponents should admit it

When a new thing is created it needs a name

takes.jamesomalley.co.uk

 

[Clinamenic]

this sort of appeal withers the instant it is said out loud. not that it's wrong but there is no oxygen for it to survive on the internet. the immediate impulse is to mock it, isn't it?

Yeah I don't really expect this to happen, but if I ever find myself within reaching distance of some critical lever, I'd likely act accordingly.

 

[Clinamenic]

Or if I find myself in a public position where I need to balance the optics between conservative and progressive peoples, I'd likely behave accordingly.

 

[Clinamenic]

I think this balance, optics-wise, could be struck if the following positions could be secured, speaking really about the US. From the progressive perspective, one should appear considerate of and somewhat repentant regarding socio-economic disparities. From the conservative perspective, one should appear affirmative of the national identity and should convey confidence and pay respect to notions of self-sovereignty.

The tricky part, it would seem, is to convey such repentance and confidence simultaneously. In large part I do think it possible to communicate the message of progressive repentance while still maintaining a tone of confidence. That is to say, perhaps the content will suffice for progressives, and the form for conservatives. Keep it simple too, IE no academic discourse, especially about social justice matters.

 

[Clinamenic]

Also, I do think the cultivation of compassion, namely the evidence of pathos in one's delivery, is necessary to really make sweepingly progressive statements without seeming performative or pious, characteristics which, in the context of social issues, I gather are toxic as far as conservative optics go. Here again I say that the foundation for the progressive position should be compassion in its common sense, if it is to be successful in reaching conservatives who have grown so pre-disposed to disregard such a position as liberal affectation.

 

[version]

The Roald Dahl thing's a bit grim. Apparently Netflix own the rights to his stuff and want to turn it into another franchise, so they've hired people to sanitise it as much as possible.

It's been funny to read the discussion online as basically everyone thinks it's bad and stupid, but younger people on the left feel compelled to mention they're worried about "sounding like a boomer" before they criticise it.

 

[version]

I am fed up of people complaining about woke. I chat to a lot of the older generations in particular, and they moan on a daily basis about wokeness and snowflakes. What can we put this phenomenon down to? I think the right wing press and other organisations (I won't say Deep State organisations) have found a way to make people more right wing, at the same time as pacifying any actual Woke sentiment. People are being told what to think and it's a newspeak phrase.

In Britain, I think you can pin it on the complete and utter failure of Conservative policy. There's nothing they can point to as a real success. Anywhere they might direct people's attention will just provide more evidence of how catastrophic they've been in government.

 

[Mr. Tea]

"Woke" is a new ideology and its proponents should admit it

When a new thing is created it needs a name

takes.jamesomalley.co.uk

But the definition has also been stretched by non-racists too, who instead just want to bash a square peg into a woke hole. Obvious examples of this are a moronic Tory MP suggesting that civil servants should stop “woke-ing from home”, whatever the fuck that means...

That's so shit it makes me feel embarrassed to belong to the same species as someone who'd consider that a funny or clever thing to say.

 

[WashYourHands]

Advertising loves it, bizarre coded ethnicity protocols particularly in Britain with obscenely bad humour to supposed problems which need ‘our’ immediate attention, eg broadband speeds

 

[version]

The corporate DEI stuff just seems like the latest in a long line of consultancy scams.