yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
This is admittedly a sample size of one, but one of my oldest and closest friends is Palestinian and a few months ago I asked him about the upcoming election and who he'd prefer to see win. He said "Anyone but Trump, I guess." So hardly a ringing endorsement of Biden/Harris/the Dems in general, but it was clear to him that Trump was worse.

I hear what you're saying about an emotive response against the current administration, but Israel would be doing exactly the same thing if Hamas had launched that attack last year while Trump or any other Republican was in charge. Even if you're going to say that the two parties are indistinguishable wrt their position on Israel (which isn't true, but let's pretend it is), it's not the only issue in the world, is it?

yes i think we agree on most things just that i can understand and have sympathy for people not voting or voting for someone else than trump/harris because of palestine, and for me those people are not "fucking idiots". being forced to vote for the person/party that is comitting a genocide feels like being in a horror movie, an episode of black mirror.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
part of the trump thing is a reaction against that obviously, the contempt that so many americans find themselves held in. that's been the only part of it that's resonated with me personally, kicking back against that
Calling the other side deplorable and the like seems stupid given that the primary aim of politics is to win people over, and it also seems weird given that their conception of a trumplodyte is so unthreatening to their own bourgeois status; what I think these actually serve is as warnings to potential deserters in their own in-group.
 

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
And this is tricky because to anyone outside the bubble, voting for Trump looks completely fucking stupid. And the most natural argument to draw for is basically are you fucking serious, you wouldn't lend your car to this guy, why would you want him to be commander in chief? But it's hard to say that without reinforcing the contempt which plays into his appeal.
You dolt, he's already been president for 4 years and the country did manifestly better under him than under Biden. In fact, that's why the Democrat campaign shied away from serious talk because they would have had to explain away their ineffectiveness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hmg

mixed_biscuits

_________________________
Clinamenic was right about the Democrat response being emigration. It's a fight or flight situation but Republicans instinctively opt to fight - could this be the left/right sex difference I posited?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
yes i think we agree on most things just that i can understand and have sympathy for people not voting or voting for someone else than trump/harris because of palestine, and for me those people are not "fucking idiots". being forced to vote for the person/party that is comitting a genocide feels like being in a horror movie, an episode of black mirror.
Well you don't live there, do you, and neither do I, so in that sense it's academic.

What I'm seeing in a lot of Americans is an attitude that could be summarized as: "I am privileging my own righteous rage against the Democrats for supporting Israel above trying to stop the Republicans, even though they are, in the best possible case, just as bad as the Democrats in this regard, and clearly worse (to far worse) on every other issue, from women's rights and gay/trans rights to the climate/environment, jobs/economy, race, drugs/guns/cops/prisons, etc. etc., and even though their leader is a convicted felon and serial rapist who mocks the disabled, robs his own charities, openly wants to fuck his own daughter, has stood on a nativist, racist and religious-fundamentalist platform since day one, has pretty much stated that he intends to dismantle democracy, and is supported by various dictators, every neo-fascist organization going, and the Ku Klux Klan. Also there's something about that Harris woman that just rubs me up the wrong way, idk."

It's a complete abdication of responsibility to try and prevent the obviously worse outcome happening in favour of gratifying a personal sense of "Ha, that'll show you." And yeah, I find that repugnant, or at least inexplicable.
 

version

Well-known member
You dolt, he's already been president for 4 years and the country did manifestly better under him than under Biden. In fact, that's why the Democrat campaign shied away from serious talk because they would have had to explain away their ineffectiveness.

Was that because of him or because things are just going to keep getting worse whoever's in charge so the previous administration will always look a little better?
 

version

Well-known member
Edit: fuck me, he's a lot more popular among Latinos than I'd ever have guessed. Probably because he's the last person in the world who'd ever say or type "Latinx."

That and a lot of Latinos are apparently Christian and/or conservative. The Democrat assumption that minorities are some sort of monolith that stick together's also wrong and overly idealistic as there's plenty of racism, anti-immigrant sentiment, etc. among groups other than white people. I've seen lots of comments wondering what happened with the Latino vote and Latinos chiming in saying it didn't surprise them because their coworkers, parents, whoever are always ranting about "illegals" and hate anyone coming in after them, even if they came in illegally themselves, and worry they'll make America more like the countries they left in the first place and make them all look bad.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
No idea about what will happen about the Gaza situation because of this outcome, but I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end of the Ukraine conflict at least, as it stands. Fingers crossed.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
No idea about what will happen about the Gaza situation because of this outcome, but I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end of the Ukraine conflict at least, as it stands. Fingers crossed.
You mean, you hope Putin is allowed to keep a bit of Ukraine if he promises to behave himself, thus preventing WWIII?

A bit like how Hitler was allowed to keep a bit of Czechoslovakia if he promised to behaved himself, which prevented WWII?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Something that's just occurred to me is that a common Republican complaint when Biden won four years ago was that he was too old to be president, but Trump is just 3.5 years younger than Biden.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
You take my point, though, that appeasing aggressively expansionist dictators in the hope of preventing catastrophic wars doesn't have an extensive history of working very well?
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
everybody would've won against harris i think. who is gonna vote for someone currently committing a genocide?
Sorry to butt into yesterday's discussion but I doubt the average American voter gives a fuck about foreign policy. There's no evidence that that's a motivator in voting beyond isolationism.
 
Top