The accelerating commodification of irishness

shiels

shiels

_
Some brilliant bits there. Ulysses as short story. I agree with the oral tradition, prioritising craic and willingness to abuse the language as being the main powers at play. But it’s a biiit much isn’t it? The inscrutability of the Irish psyche thing I am very suspect of. patronising the wee jester peasants! The mad wee magic people where do they get it from
 
shiels

shiels

_
The are not sure what truth is. They have a system of logic that defies logic. The only country that can be regarded as a custodian of unchanging human truth!
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Burgess is great, at least on literature. Thoroughly recommend his books on Joyce and Shakespeare, and The Ink Trade (collection of journalism/reviews)
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Was struck by his claim that the Irish don't write novels in the traditional sense, having read a bit of Beckett, too. Although I'm sure there are a squillion examples of Irish people writing straightforward novels, particularly in recent times.

I can't speak to the irish character, of course, supposing such a thing exists

What is the English character? Stereotypically it would be I dunno... suspicious of abstractions, hatred of people getting 'above themselves' (either through success or pretension), obsession with weather, general sense of pessimism, compulsive 'polite' manners, a kind of rigid practicality/philistinism, constant self-deprecation disguising a barely repressed sense that England is the centre of the universe

And so on—there's a powerful attraction in the idea that nations have characters (just as for some people there's a powerful attraction in star-signs distributing personal characteristics)

I was just thinking, is there something "Irish" about Dickens? The yarn-spinning element to him. But then, always there's this fascination with eccentrics, fascination and fear of? Note: Dickens had, seemingly, no Irish ancestry.
 
shiels

shiels

_
His interviews are great. I’ll get the ink trade thank you. I’ve only read a clockwork orange …. Made me feel sick for a while after, the language lingers and loops in your head like a bad music hook. Have you read his novels?
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I read Clockwork Orange a long time ago, like everyone on here I suppose

Never have read his novels, no. The ones that are highly recommended by other people are very long. "Earthly Powers" and his recreation of Shakespeare "Nothing Like The Sun". @jenks must have read them.

I'm currently reading Proust so I've got my hands full.

He also wrote a book on DH Lawrence which I started but didn't get far with (doesn't help that I've not ready any DHL).
 
shiels

shiels

_
He hated it in the end and hates the Kubrick film, tried to get it canned. And the burglary rape scene was his way of processing his wife’s abuse by some off duty soldiers
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
The other thing you encounter reading about Yeats, Joyce, Beckett is the contrast between the Catholic and Protestant Irish. Perhaps they have different "minds" too. Joyce was Catholic, Beckett Protestant, for example.

I like finding out a writer is formed by their country/class/time, although perhaps its a bit philistinic of me to care
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
shiels said:
He hated it in the end and hates the Kubrick film, tried to get it canned. And the burglary rape scene was his way of processing his wife’s abuse by some off duty soldiers
Click to expand...
Kubrick changes the ending, too, doesn't he. Burgess has Alex grow up, if not repent, and Kubrick has him ready to go out raping again.
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
shiels said:
I watched the film again recently, it’s still brilliant and makes me feel queasy and excited
Click to expand...
I saw it at the BFI must be 4-5 years back now and although I did really like it there were elements where I thought kubrick was trying to be funny and bombing hard
 
shiels

shiels

_
Corpsey said:
The other thing you encounter reading about Yeats, Joyce, Beckett is the contrast between the Catholic and Protestant Irish. Perhaps they have different "minds" too. Joyce was Catholic, Beckett Protestant, for example.

I like finding out a writer is formed by their country/class/time, although perhaps its a bit philistinic of me to care
Click to expand...
Kevin Barry:

Funny, actually—writers of the American South often have a resonance with Irish writers. A lot of the concerns seem somehow familiar. A lot of cultural influences in that part of the United States come from Ireland in terms of the music and so forth. Language that originates in religious practice as well. It’s a reductive thing to say about Irish writing maybe, but there’s Catholic prose and there’s Protestant prose. Joyce is Catholic prose; Beckett is Protestant prose. The question is, do you put everything on the page or do you take everything off the page? Do you really break it down and make it austere?


I think, in the 20th century, many Irish writers struggled between these two giant shadow figures. But there are lots of elements to Irish writing and I like that there’s also a mischievous streak, a roguish spirit that goes back to writers like Flann O’Brien, who wrote in the mid-20th century. I’ve seen so much of a shared kind of gallows humor with writers of the American South like Flannery O’Connor. I live in the West of Ireland, quite close to the Atlantic Coast—
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
Protestantism was I suppose the (brutal in every sense) English import, the aristocratic religion.

I always wish I knew more about how religious sectarianism shaped our culture (and others)—I've got a massive book by Diarmaid McCulloch "Reformation" but I'll never get around to it I suppose
 
shiels

shiels

_
Corpsey said:
I saw it at the BFI must be 4-5 years back now and although I did really like it there were elements where I thought kubrick was trying to be funny and bombing hard
Click to expand...
I don’t find him funny at all. Strangelove isn’t funny even though it tries to be. It’s queasy and unsettling
 
Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
Well written piece quoted but the tenth whiskey and talk of jealousy around sisters was a bit ott

What would he have made of Pogue Mahone
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top