Double Bind?

[DLaurent]

Anyone actually read any Bateson? I haven't, although I have found myself interested in the theories of a double bind.

A) It's a situation I have felt I was in, and B) I think it can apply to how people are treated politically, in a wider sense, with the term 'Gaslighting' being popular.

Double bind - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think it could be a way to ensure at the very least, coercive control, and if combined with real trauma, deeper psychological manipulation to the extent you might call 'mind control'.

 

[william_kent]

@sus knows a bit about Gregory Bateson....

 

[sus]

Indeed

The original essay of his is quite easy. I'd recommend over the Wikipedia

Bateson thought doublebinds in childhood could cause schizophrenia. I'm skeptical but his descriptions of otters at play is lovely, and was foundational for Goffman's vocabulary in Frame Analysis, to which we owe our metaphors of "framing" a media event or argument.

I believe Batesons ideas here also influenced RD Laing's Knots, though I could be getting it turned around.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

People get stuck in patterns of behaving when they (often unconsciously) give themselves a double bind, typically where getting out of one bind only gets you into the other. For example a person who feels that they have the choice of staying in an abusive relationship or leaving and becoming homeless. In effect, the purpose of the secondary bind (in the example, being homeless) is to keep the person in the primary bind (in the example, an abusive relationship). In practice there may be many other options and a therapist will seek to break the bind by helping the person see these other choices.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Yes, this is used on both sides: you're either a patriotic American or a Communist, you're either in favour of open borders or a fascist...it was even done explicitly in saying that you can't be a non-racist, you have to be an anti-racist otherwise the only thing you are is a racist. Actually, these political examples may be Hobson's choice; depending on whether one of the options objectively works for you or not.

 

[DLaurent]

Double bind explained how I meant it quite well above, on a wider political sense. Applies to loads of wedge issues, where there is no objectively total right answer. If you combine it with 'punishment' or ridicule for holding both beliefs, then you can control people.

 

[Murphy]

keep reading thread title as double blind and x, y and z randomised control trials keep coming to mind

being born is a double bind - no one asks you for your permission to exist ripping your soul into existence, so what options are you left with other than attempting to make a half decent go at it while trying to stay sane

 

[DLaurent]

If you throw Mother and Father in the mix you're closer to holy grail of psychology.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

keep reading thread title as double blind and x, y and z randomised control trials keep coming to mind

being born is a double bind - no one asks you for your permission to exist ripping your soul into existence, so what options are you left with other than attempting to make a half decent go at it while trying to stay sane

Research into pre-womb memory says that people do contribute to when and how they will be newly incarnated; it's just hard to retrieve these memories without help.

 

[Murphy]

who you gonna call?