Spendy liveblogs "Jim Morrison: Secret Teacher of the Occult"

william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
have I ever mentioned my love of "rock biography"?

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@sus - have you ever read this one? ( edit: No One Here Gets Out Alive )

in my top ten ( rock biographies ) for sure, because it is hilarious - a teenage fanboy looks over Jim's racist tendencies ***** and wanks off over his pissed stained leather trousers

edit: so yeah, Jim might not be the first "secret teacher of the occult" to die in a bathtub due to smack overdose, and I'm sure he won't be the last

"break on thru to the otherside!"

I'm sort of being sarky because I love live tunes where it just breaks down to drums and bass and some egotistical guy grabs the mic and argues with the audience

"SHUT UP!"

"SSSSSHHHH"



When the music's over DOORS ABSOLUTELY LIVE



Alternative TV - Alternatives

( I'm sure I posted some anecdote about tripping to this ATV record in a squat some other time? @martin identified one of the guys on the mic who was getting a bit emotive as far as I can remember )

***** - I'm being kind here. it is positively painful to read when they mention how teenage Jim shouted out "FUCK OFF N word" on a bus during civil rights era because he wanted to sit on the back seat and the co-authors are trying to excuse it as an act of transgression rather than simple racism
 
sus

sus

Moderator
I just watched the new Dylan bio. Unfortunately I failed to spot @kid charlemagne but I looked.

On the whole I felt so-so about it, it smudged a lot of chronology and some of the side characters wrong (Joan was done dirty—Suze got credit for turning on Bob to politics; Alan Lomax was made to look like a foammouthed maniac). I wish it had leaned into a view of Dylan as a master of style, first and foremost—a superforecaster of pop fashions.

Actually come to think of it the best representation of Dylan out there is probably Gary Valentine in PTA's Licorice Pizza. Gary is always sniffing out what's hot and tracking it like a bloodhound.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
But there were moments I really liked. I liked when Chalamet/Dylan emerges from the corner of the recording studio in with his arms out of his coat sleeves. Looking like Dracula with a cape. That was so weird and spooky and symbolic and perfect.

And I liked the Betty Davis leitmotif with the two lit cigarettes



Because of course, he's giving her a light. As Dylan gives Suze a light. He goes to visit Guthrie "to catch a spark." And everyone's going to him like some Prometheus who'll set their kindling ablaze.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
Come to think of it. There is a similar scene in Licorice Pizza, where Gary orders two cokes—one for him, one for his date. He doesn't ask her what she wants. She's going to drink what she's served. Because he's the monkey with the tambourine, which makes him weirdly master and slave at the same time. The center of the show; she's in his orbit, his world. And if she doesn't like it she can leave.
 
Murphy

Murphy

cat malogen
Morrison as dribbling wreck? Painfully so

Only tune I ever come back to? Ghost Song - it offers a segue to mix an array of 4/4 compositions ideal for Sunday afternoon weekender finales, add Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams and Miss You by the Rolling Stones free party crew easing off the pedal

Morrison as MK-Ultra sacrifice from the woohoo worshipping sector of the US military-industrial-complex/deep state? ✔️

All the 20+ year 60’s anniversaries in the late 80’s were painful. Oliver ‘sense of humour’ Stone pumped out his bollocks bio which hovered around for far too long, adding to the problem. Another Val Kilmer related post

Have you seen Rivals @sus ? Think you’d write a 5000 word bit immediately after. 80% of this shift are women and they’re all rotating watching via the set up in the office chill zone annex. It’s so shit but entertainingly shit, just
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
sus said:
I just watched the new Dylan bio. Unfortunately I failed to spot @kid charlemagne but I looked.

On the whole I felt so-so about it, it smudged a lot of chronology and some of the side characters wrong (Joan was done dirty—Suze got credit for turning on Bob to politics; Alan Lomax was made to look like a foammouthed maniac). I wish it had leaned into a view of Dylan as a master of style, first and foremost—a superforecaster of pop fashions.

Actually come to think of it the best representation of Dylan out there is probably Gary Valentine in PTA's Licorice Pizza. Gary is always sniffing out what's hot and tracking it like a bloodhound.
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kid charlemagne said:
nothing insightful or more imaginative to get from this film that you couldnt get from just reading a wiki.... i remember when the trailer released, i sent it to sus and he said "boomer project repackaged to get the zoomers on board" or something like that, and thats pretty much it.... llewyn davis, dont look back, im not there, masked and anonymous, no direction home all are more of a bob dylan movie than this is.... i guess this is a more pallatable film for a zoomer who doesnt know dylan, but thats not me....
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william_kent

william_kent

Well-known member
@sus

have you read another one of my top ten rock biographies? "Nico: Songs they don't play on the radio"

interesting because she gets a bit maudlin about the way Jim dumped her

plus a vital insight into Manchester UK in the 80s

essential reading if you can translate the purple prose into English
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
sus said:
I just watched the new Dylan bio. Unfortunately I failed to spot @kid charlemagne but I looked.

On the whole I felt so-so about it, it smudged a lot of chronology and some of the side characters wrong (Joan was done dirty—Suze got credit for turning on Bob to politics; Alan Lomax was made to look like a foammouthed maniac). I wish it had leaned into a view of Dylan as a master of style, first and foremost—a superforecaster of pop fashions.

Actually come to think of it the best representation of Dylan out there is probably Gary Valentine in PTA's Licorice Pizza. Gary is always sniffing out what's hot and tracking it like a bloodhound.
Click to expand...
i was able to point myself out in a scene to my mother, my face cant be made out, but she recognized my figure which was nice, but they cut out the other scene i was on set for... but yes you are on point with how they treat the side characters, i was mainly put off with how grossly underwritten joan baez was, all she really is in the film is some bitchy girl who sings bob's songs, and the whole love triangle they decide to shoe horn in is grating too as they use joan to be someone who just wants to sing bob's songs and sleep with him, and thats what drives a wrench between him and suze.... and bob was also married by 1965 and done with suze by 63/64, or just by the time another side of bob dylan released......

theres no real attempt to dig into how robert zimmerman transforms into bob dylan, its just this guy who walks to new york, sings some earth shattering folk songs, then drifts towards rock and roll and people get upset.... no interest into the roots of any of these aspects, just a matter of fact conventional hollywood telling of the story
 
sus

sus

Moderator
kid charlemagne said:
i was able to point myself out in a scene to my mother, my face cant be made out, but she recognized my figure which was nice, but they cut out the other scene i was on set for... but yes you are on point with how they treat the side characters, i was mainly put off with how grossly underwritten joan baez was, all she really is in the film is some bitchy girl who sings bob's songs, and the whole love triangle they decide to shoe horn in is grating too as they use joan to be someone who just wants to sing bob's songs and sleep with him, and thats what drives a wrench between him and suze.... and bob was also married by 1965 and done with suze by 63/64, or just by the time another side of bob dylan released......

theres no real attempt to dig into how robert zimmerman transforms into bob dylan, its just this guy who walks to new york, sings some earth shattering folk songs, then drifts towards rock and roll and people get upset.... no interest into the roots of any of these aspects, just a matter of fact conventional hollywood telling of the story
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Yes well said

I had fun but I would have cut Suze out entirely. (Sorry Suze.) Give the extra screentime to Baez. Display Dylan as a very ambitious climber who actively pursued Baez knowing she had the "it" factor and was the hottest thing in Greenwich Village.
 
sus

sus

Moderator
I thought it did a good job of establishing him as this chimeric or protean figure. the elevator scene where Bob Neuwirth is like, "Be free to do what?" and he's like "Whatever they don't want me to do."

I thought Pete Seeger was basically lovingly and interestingly rendered up to the whole "I'm gonna use an axe on the sound equipment" histrionics. (Didn't Pete swear to his deathbed he was just trying to adjust the vocal levels on Maggie's Farm, so the crowd could hear the lyrics?)
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
sus said:
Yes well said

I had fun but I would have cut Suze out entirely. (Sorry Suze.) Give the extra screentime to Baez. Display Dylan as a very ambitious climber who actively pursued Baez knowing she had the "it" factor and was the hottest thing in Greenwich Village.
Click to expand...
i think they couldve simply just written suze better in how she puts him on politically, theres bits in the beginning where she talks about the organizations shes in but thats about it... theres a clear arc with dylan in how hes politically influenced by this folk scene, and writes groundbreaking culturally and politically relevant songs and lyrics, hailed as a messiah, shuns that messiah image, goes electric, but thats not really confronted directly in the way it could be, its all very matter of fact
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
sus said:
I thought it did a good job of establishing him as this chimeric or protean figure. the elevator scene where Bob Neuwirth is like, "Be free to do what?" and he's like "Whatever they don't want me to do."

I thought Pete Seeger was basically lovingly and interestingly rendered up to the whole "I'm gonna use an axe on the sound equipment" histrionics. (Didn't Pete swear to his deathbed he was just trying to adjust the vocal levels on Maggie's Farm, so the crowd could hear the lyrics?)
Click to expand...
yea i think thats true about him, but in the film, him and lomax are portrayed the way they are for stupid hollywood dramatic purposes, same deal with the love triangle really
 
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sus

sus

Moderator
kid charlemagne said:
hailed as a messiah, shuns that messiah image, goes electric, but thats not really confronted directly in the way it could be, its all very matter of fact
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I think they shouldve addressed like

why do these people see him as a messiah

you see them chasing him down in the car or whatever

and you understand what pete seeger looks for/wants from bob, with the whole folk seesaw story
 
sus

sus

Moderator
but I think Dylan wanted to be both charismatic/loved, and also to be ambiguous, to be protean and not bow to the expectations/yoke that inevitably come with being loved

and I think the result naturally positioned him as a prophet, he brought it upon himself and in some sense wanted it. even if he shunned it too
 
kid charlemagne

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
sus said:
but I think Dylan wanted to be both charismatic/loved, and also to be ambiguous, to be protean and not bow to the expectations/yoke that inevitably come with being loved
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i may be biased but i think hes succeeded in this, just in how hailed as a mythical figure he still is today... i mean these events were 60 years ago now, and hes still alive, he still puts out music, he still tours, all of it isnt nearly as popular, but hes stood the test of time in how fabled of a character he has become in cultural discourse
 
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