An Emergent Order

[version]

The Humpty Dumpty of tradition has fallen off the wall. God is dead. Modernism attempts to put the pieces back together again, although presumably in a way that is more rational and just. Like the King's men and horses it inevitably fails -- the process of constructing and falling anew only accelerates. Finally, postmodernism gives up. It "plays with the pieces." The modernists and old traditionalists snort in disgust. It seems to be pure nihilism.​

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But then something magical occurs. The pieces begin to organize themselves. A complex, chaotic order forms its own patterns, without centre and without control.​

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This is where ALP flows. This is the fully anarchic free market gift economy of the Gaian mind bound to replace all modernist models, both capitalist and socialist, of attempted economic and political control.​

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This involves a new paradigm of language, one discovered in the Wake. Beyond Ferdinand Saussure's view of language, taken up by the structuralists and the post-structuralists, as being a synchronic network of difference is his disconcerting discovery of hidden anagramic layers of meaning throughout Latin and other poetry. From this, he reluctantly realized that the emergence of unintentional meaning might well up and be present within all texts. This is ALP. This is what is beyond the post-modern.​

GROUPNAME FOR GRAPEJUICE, BAKE AND WAKE 1
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What would this actually look like? How would we distinguish between a 'complex, chaotic order forming its own patterns' and chaos? Isn't this what's been happening all along, modernism et al. being equivalent to standing in a river with a marker pen attempting to draw a grid on the surface of flowing water?

The ceasless back and forth on whether Trump has a plan's had me thinking about this sort of thing too. Do we learn anything new from continuing to focus on the man and his potential motivations or should we disregard his intent and anything he might say and instead focus purely on his material impact and the patterns and structures emerging around him?

Perhaps he's such a pronounced site of instability we won't be able to discern any sort of pattern until he becomes history.

Anyone feel the pieces are organising themselves? If so, what patterns do you see?

 

[pattycakes_]

Is it not more metamodern now? A sinking feeling of being untethered and that we're starting to lose our bearings. Paradoxical/nonsensical logic running amok.

Where pomo's sarcasms and ironies once dominated a huge chunk of the cultural landscape, it's almost as if that's come back to haunt us and is being superseded by reality satirizing us. Having fun at our expense. Stare into the void long enough etc

 

[mixed_biscuits]

ALP

Australian Labour Party, apparently.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Trump is the most transparent president ever. I don't know what the problem is. You have to give examples.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

Tel us more about the anagram code. That sounds well interesting.

 

[entertainment]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about.

But the pleasure in Trump is surely that the political-economic system, which we have been made to understand as this dark, transcendent, impenetrable intelligence, is being sidelined by the very mundane, primitively human impulses of one man.

He is like kung fu panda belly bouncing the cryptic shadowy tiger lord

 

[version]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about.

But the pleasure in Trump is surely that the political-economic system, which we have been made to understand as this dark, transcendent, impenetrable intelligence, is being sidelined by the very mundane, primitively human impulses of one man.

He is like kung fu panda belly bouncing the cryptic shadowy tiger lord

Yeah, I think that's partly true, also an interesting idea to stick next to the discussion of 'postmodernism' as it presents a challenge to what's often billed as perhaps its most crucial component: the total dominance of the market and its logic.

 

[entertainment]

It is definitely more interesting when the evil force dominating our world is of some sort of cryptic, non-human nature. Which is why Trump's dismantling of neo-liberalism is a moment of bathos.

 

[version]

It is definitely more interesting when the evil force dominating our world is of some sort of cryptic, non-human nature. Which is why Trump's dismantling of neo-liberalism is a moment of bathos.

Remains to be seen whether he can actually see it through, mind you. Some of the people keeping him in place are fickle, to say the least.

 

[entertainment]

Remains to be seen whether he can actually see it through, mind you. Some of the people keeping him in place are fickle, to say the least.

Don't know if I even buy the narrative that he has shifted things for good. Might be business as usual again before we know it.

 

[version]

Don't know if I even buy the narrative that he has shifted things for good. Might be business as usual again before we know it.

Wouldn't be surprised. So much of what he's done seems to hinge on his personality and he's not going to be around forever.

 

[version]

Something I keep running into is any attempt at explaining these world-historic currents and forces just feels lacking. The more I read, the less I feel anyone really knows what they're talking about. Sometimes I feel it isn't worth anyone talking about anything, from experts all the way down to the layman.

I'm reading a Perry Anderson book on postmodernity atm and there are at least three or four competing definitions he details; Jameson's is seemingly his preferred one and the one he claims is most comprehensive, but I'm sure you could find someone else who'd punch holes in it.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about.

But the pleasure in Trump is surely that the political-economic system, which we have been made to understand as this dark, transcendent, impenetrable intelligence, is being sidelined by the very mundane, primitively human impulses of one man.

He is like kung fu panda belly bouncing the cryptic shadowy tiger lord

Yeah but Nvidia has just moved all their manufacturing to the US and they are a major player.

 

[version]

The language-as-model-for-reality kind of thinking doesn't really do it for me at the moment, feels reductive and indulgent. I'm also not sure what znore's getting at re: the emergence of unintentional meaning being what comes after postmodernism. Haven't unintentional meanings always been emerging?

 

[entertainment]

Something I keep running into is any attempt at explaining these world-historic currents and forces just feels lacking. The more I read, the less I feel anyone really knows what they're talking about. Sometimes I feel it isn't worth anyone talking about anything, from experts all the way down to the layman.

Yeah in a way it's completely unserious to talk in this way, that's true. It was bad under the pandemic with all the world historically-tuned prophesies.

 

[pattycakes_]

What else would people do instead though

 

[pattycakes_]

It's one of the major forms of content

 

[version]

What else would people do instead though

Whatever else they talk about when they aren't talking the world-historic, I suppose. I know what you mean though. There's an irresistible pull to it. It's exciting to think about and discuss this stuff. The way it's packaged into 'content', as you say, is really dispiriting though. When I get bored I skim through lots of 'debate' kind of things on YouTube like Piers Morgan, Rogan, UnHerd, Novara, etc. and my overwhelming impression is one of constant noise and not much else. The same goes for a lot of articles. And they're all contradicting themselves and each other all the time. This is one of the draws of Beckett for me. A burning distrust of and frustration with thought and language.

 

[pattycakes_]

Yes the need for it to be constant to keep the viewership coming back as is demanded in this day and age does take away from it but there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative if you want to remain competitive.

Would people be into something that was only once a week or in the case of magazines bitd once a month?

There's also the factor of these things providing company in increasingly lonely times. I like to have something from YouTube going when I eat for eg. Sometimes that's political stuff.

 

[version]

Yes the need for it to be constant to keep the viewership coming back as is demanded in this day and age does take away from it but there doesn't seem to be a viable alternative if you want to remain competitive.

Would people be into something that was only once a week or in the case of magazines bitd once a month?

There's also the factor of these things providing company in increasingly lonely times. I like to have something from YouTube going when I eat for eg. Sometimes that's political stuff.

It's not just about the 'content creators' though. That's a specific issue, but I'm also talking about any attempt to construct a framework for these things. I get a similar feeling reading philosophy and 'theory' at times. It's often more rigorous, substantial and stimulating, but I still get the feeling it's just a more committed group of people going on 'vibes' the way the podcasters and commentators are. They've a more developed vocabulary and advanced toolkit to approach the problems with, but they're all contradicting each other, trying to sell their book, trying to stand out. Zizek was on Novara the other day and, yeah, he can be entertaining, but what's the use of it? He was doing the thing about whether or not Trump is a fascist, the same thing some other left wing commentator said is pointless in an article I read a while back. Who's right? How would we ever know? Does it matter?

The loneliness factor's definitely something I've felt before. I get more out of reading a book, but it can be quite isolating. A shit YouTube vid or comment section with seemingly real people talking is at least a sign of life, like having the TV or radio on for background noise.