Basketball: the Ultimate Dual of Masculinity(?)

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
my sentiments here should translate well enough for the americans here.... but otherwise i will do my best to make others understand.... i have been playing pickup ball on and off for 4-5 years now.... ok maybe "sport" in general bbut is there a greater, obviously external because ball is a physical game, internal dual of masculinity than basketball.... lets look at today for example.... i get to the court shooting around... theres this big fat guy (hes not white).... he challenges me to 1v1 lol.... he sees small kid charlemagne.... all consistently does for offense is back me down in post but i dont care im here im putting my chest into him.... im pushing back...swatting at the ball... tiring this fucker out.... he calls ticky tack fouls and out of bounds call.... i beat him 1v1.... never fucking disrespect me like that again.... now im in some 5v5s.... now im in some 4v4s.... in a later game of 5s... i hadnt done much so far in the game.... this guy who hadnt been guarding me picks me up and says "he been quiet all game..... fast forward a couple possessions later ive now got a couple buckets..... a later posessions..... i get the ball on the fast break.... he is only defender between me and the rim.... i have a teammate with me.... i can toss to him easy bucket but no.... i go right at the guy who called me out.... go up..... body to body and score on him.... i hear a teammate say "and the foul"..... later in the 4v4s... im pickup a big fat dude..... in both games im a monster on the rebounds..... pushing this dude out the way... bodying him..... shifting my way..... his teammates yelling they have to box out..... as small kid charlemagne i feel i play with house money in ball.... i play physical.... body guys..... swipe at them.... hit them (unintentionally obvsiouly).... why? im small.... what are u going to do? talk down to me and call me out and call fouls.... u going to do that as a big guy.... as a big muscular guy.... look at me u should be able to take me in the paint.... u pussy.... u bitch.....

notice now.... i use physical and body a lot to describe basketball actions..... u dont see this type of body to body action in any other sport..... normally.... "physicality" "bodying" "putting chest to back" would be called or have a gay connotation..... but here in ball.... it is actually the opposite of gay.... it is being masculine..... u are playing ball..... 1v1 is a true mental dual.... yes you can talk shit..... but usually people dont really shit talk much because its all strangers... but when u are isolation possession on a guy.... its really only u and him on the court.... u make eye contact.... will he one up you? or will you one up him? and why will either outcome occur? yes because who is more hypothetically masculine....

now yes im not perfect... i am incredibly hesitant in calling fouls when people do foul me.... part of me wants me to just make the basket with the foul and play on because if i call a foul before the shot.... the other team may say the basket doesnt count because i called the foul before i had the shot up.... they are pretty lenient tho.... but mostly.... what i look like as a man calling fouls.... see my thinking is that im too masculine to call a foul.... im a man i should be able to take physical content.... but the truth is, it is likely more masculine to call the fouls because you arent worried about appearing less masculine..... i have to work on this.....

so..... i feel sport.... mostly basketball is maybe the ultimate dual of masculinity because it is all internal and unspoken battle..... they are strangers... u will likely never see them again.... but regardless you go at all wills to overpower them mentally and physically through.... putting a ball into a basket....but why?

so do you have similar experiences in ball and sport battling with others? if you dont relate to anything i experience please say what is mrore of a ultimate dual of masculinity.... and no, trading jabs and"riffing" with people online does not count.....

i saw in another thread sus others talking about recording conversations of strangers.... i need to try and attempt this on the basketball court..... theres not a lot of real "shit talk".... but its a lot of off hand comments that show the most about people....
 

line b

Well-known member
I don't know about any of the British sports but it's certainly the American sport that puts you most often into physical altercation with your opponent. Maybe linemen in football have more but the violence for them is abstracted and made impersonal by the rigid rules on posture, body movement and ofc the obscuring helmet and pads.

Different courts have different cultures too. Some have constant jawing and feel always on the edge of an actual fight breaking out. If youre a nice polite boy from a good family it's probably good to expose yourself to those a little cause it's the only opportunity your ever gonna get to be apart of that energy
 

william_kent

Well-known member
my sentiments here should translate well enough for the americans here.... but otherwise i will do my best to make others understand.... i have been playing pickup ball on and off for 4-5 years now.... ok maybe "sport" in general bbut is there a greater, obviously external because ball is a physical game, internal dual of masculinity than basketball.... lets look at today for example.... i get to the court shooting around... theres this big fat guy (hes not white).... he challenges me to 1v1 lol.... he sees small kid charlemagne.... all consistently does for offense is back me down in post but i dont care im here im putting my chest into him.... im pushing back...swatting at the ball... tiring this fucker out.... he calls ticky tack fouls and out of bounds call.... i beat him 1v1.... never fucking disrespect me like that again.... now im in some 5v5s.... now im in some 4v4s.... in a later game of 5s... i hadnt done much so far in the game.... this guy who hadnt been guarding me picks me up and says "he been quiet all game..... fast forward a couple possessions later ive now got a couple buckets..... a later posessions..... i get the ball on the fast break.... he is only defender between me and the rim.... i have a teammate with me.... i can toss to him easy bucket but no.... i go right at the guy who called me out.... go up..... body to body and score on him.... i hear a teammate say "and the foul"..... later in the 4v4s... im pickup a big fat dude..... in both games im a monster on the rebounds..... pushing this dude out the way... bodying him..... shifting my way..... his teammates yelling they have to box out..... as small kid charlemagne i feel i play with house money in ball.... i play physical.... body guys..... swipe at them.... hit them (unintentionally obvsiouly).... why? im small.... what are u going to do? talk down to me and call me out and call fouls.... u going to do that as a big guy.... as a big muscular guy.... look at me u should be able to take me in the paint.... u pussy.... u bitch.....

notice now.... i use physical and body a lot to describe basketball actions..... u dont see this type of body to body action in any other sport..... normally.... "physicality" "bodying" "putting chest to back" would be called or have a gay connotation..... but here in ball.... it is actually the opposite of gay.... it is being masculine..... u are playing ball..... 1v1 is a true mental dual.... yes you can talk shit..... but usually people dont really shit talk much because its all strangers... but when u are isolation possession on a guy.... its really only u and him on the court.... u make eye contact.... will he one up you? or will you one up him? and why will either outcome occur? yes because who is more hypothetically masculine....

now yes im not perfect... i am incredibly hesitant in calling fouls when people do foul me.... part of me wants me to just make the basket with the foul and play on because if i call a foul before the shot.... the other team may say the basket doesnt count because i called the foul before i had the shot up.... they are pretty lenient tho.... but mostly.... what i look like as a man calling fouls.... see my thinking is that im too masculine to call a foul.... im a man i should be able to take physical content.... but the truth is, it is likely more masculine to call the fouls because you arent worried about appearing less masculine..... i have to work on this.....

so..... i feel sport.... mostly basketball is maybe the ultimate dual of masculinity because it is all internal and unspoken battle..... they are strangers... u will likely never see them again.... but regardless you go at all wills to overpower them mentally and physically through.... putting a ball into a basket....but why?

so do you have similar experiences in ball and sport battling with others? if you dont relate to anything i experience please say what is mrore of a ultimate dual of masculinity.... and no, trading jabs and"riffing" with people online does not count.....

i saw in another thread sus others talking about recording conversations of strangers.... i need to try and attempt this on the basketball court..... theres not a lot of real "shit talk".... but its a lot of off hand comments that show the most about people....


when is your novel coming out?..

'id say call it 'basketball diaries' but I feel that title may be taken and the content was shit ( not yours! I'm talking about Jim Carroll in coded messages )...another of "Janis?' boyfriends wrote a novel and I can't remember much of it apart from the extremely painful 'constipation" scene that was only repeated in rumours of bobby brown 'reaching deep' to relieve Whitney of a ceramic colonic block etc



ECHO LTD 10 001
 

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
my sentiments here should translate well enough for the americans here.... but otherwise i will do my best to make others understand.... i have been playing pickup ball on and off for 4-5 years now.... ok maybe "sport" in general bbut is there a greater, obviously external because ball is a physical game, internal dual of masculinity than basketball.... lets look at today for example.... i get to the court shooting around... theres this big fat guy (hes not white).... he challenges me to 1v1 lol.... he sees small kid charlemagne.... all consistently does for offense is back me down in post but i dont care im here im putting my chest into him.... im pushing back...swatting at the ball... tiring this fucker out.... he calls ticky tack fouls and out of bounds call.... i beat him 1v1.... never fucking disrespect me like that again.... now im in some 5v5s.... now im in some 4v4s.... in a later game of 5s... i hadnt done much so far in the game.... this guy who hadnt been guarding me picks me up and says "he been quiet all game..... fast forward a couple possessions later ive now got a couple buckets..... a later posessions..... i get the ball on the fast break.... he is only defender between me and the rim.... i have a teammate with me.... i can toss to him easy bucket but no.... i go right at the guy who called me out.... go up..... body to body and score on him.... i hear a teammate say "and the foul"..... later in the 4v4s... im pickup a big fat dude..... in both games im a monster on the rebounds..... pushing this dude out the way... bodying him..... shifting my way..... his teammates yelling they have to box out..... as small kid charlemagne i feel i play with house money in ball.... i play physical.... body guys..... swipe at them.... hit them (unintentionally obvsiouly).... why? im small.... what are u going to do? talk down to me and call me out and call fouls.... u going to do that as a big guy.... as a big muscular guy.... look at me u should be able to take me in the paint.... u pussy.... u bitch.....

notice now.... i use physical and body a lot to describe basketball actions..... u dont see this type of body to body action in any other sport..... normally.... "physicality" "bodying" "putting chest to back" would be called or have a gay connotation..... but here in ball.... it is actually the opposite of gay.... it is being masculine..... u are playing ball..... 1v1 is a true mental dual.... yes you can talk shit..... but usually people dont really shit talk much because its all strangers... but when u are isolation possession on a guy.... its really only u and him on the court.... u make eye contact.... will he one up you? or will you one up him? and why will either outcome occur? yes because who is more hypothetically masculine....

now yes im not perfect... i am incredibly hesitant in calling fouls when people do foul me.... part of me wants me to just make the basket with the foul and play on because if i call a foul before the shot.... the other team may say the basket doesnt count because i called the foul before i had the shot up.... they are pretty lenient tho.... but mostly.... what i look like as a man calling fouls.... see my thinking is that im too masculine to call a foul.... im a man i should be able to take physical content.... but the truth is, it is likely more masculine to call the fouls because you arent worried about appearing less masculine..... i have to work on this.....

so..... i feel sport.... mostly basketball is maybe the ultimate dual of masculinity because it is all internal and unspoken battle..... they are strangers... u will likely never see them again.... but regardless you go at all wills to overpower them mentally and physically through.... putting a ball into a basket....but why?

so do you have similar experiences in ball and sport battling with others? if you dont relate to anything i experience please say what is mrore of a ultimate dual of masculinity.... and no, trading jabs and"riffing" with people online does not count.....

i saw in another thread sus others talking about recording conversations of strangers.... i need to try and attempt this on the basketball court..... theres not a lot of real "shit talk".... but its a lot of off hand comments that show the most about people....
Ever heard of a game called Hockey?
I’ve seen players loose teeth and not miss a shift. They would rather play through all sorts of pain including broken bones to not let their teammates down. I’ve seen guys getting stitches from high sticks or inadvertent/Blocked shots to the face.
There is no comparison in N.America Btwn the NHL, NBA, MlB or even the NFL (nhl playing 82 game seasons, basically every other night. Vs American football, who have some of the largest human beings in pro (team sports, we are talking team sports right?) but they play a 16 game season (once a week).and

I do take your point about schoolyard/street ball. It’s played more like the NBA was in the 1980’s-90’s unless it was blatant, no blood no foul.
By and large though the NBA & MLB are stacked with very talented, but fragile bitches.

I think that’s one (of a myriad of reasons) European football will remain a Women’s sport in N. America.


The lads have talent. The fan bases are fun/insane,The playmaking is great, but when we see a grown adult male spaz out and roll around on the pitch like he got shot storming Normandy it doesn’t and won’t be watchable outside of international/olympic play.

Rugby, hurling, those are sports that if given a chance could do well here to a broader cross section of sports fans.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
What about boxing two men standing opposite each other and just punching each other in the head again and again till one of them falls over

I read an ethnological / sociological account of an Inuit village and what you described is the week before whaling season

each "lodge" visits every other "lodge: and they play "games"

like: you hang from the rafters while I whack you again and again with a two by four plank of wood - if you drop I win and you lose

and so on

their creation myth is one of my favourites; "once there was a raven, and the raven had a shit, and the raven shit is our world"
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
This is one of several big reasons why I've never been good at or into sports. I am a natural submissive who learned early to survive in the masculine world meant placation. And an incredibly bad loser of course.

I wish I could get into watching sports (or football at least) but I find it tough, esp cos it takes hours of your time up you could be playing chess, reading lord of the rings, or getting pussy.
 

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
Hockey and boxing are valid comments…. But what makes basketball more in line with what I’m saying is because of how accessible it is…. There are a plethora of courts in nyc I can walk to and jump in games and dual with others….. u don’t have that with boxing and hockey
 

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
What about boxing two men standing opposite each other and just punching each other in the head again and again till one of them falls over

Yeah, I had to slip in the question/confirmation that the op was referring to team sports. He did start out using a one on one game as a prime example.
Clearly, the raw courage & talent it takes to make it in the world of professional boxing/MMA are an entirely different species.
Even in team violent/collision contact sports their are positions for highly skilled
Specific role players that rarely if ever need be involved with the tougher, or masculine, to use the op’s thread title.

In non ‘contact’ sports like basketball trash talk, chirping at your opponent is a big part of the game psychologically. To me though, and I played a lot of basketball growing up. It is more akin to the type of chest pounding/crotch grabbing you’d see in break dancing competitions.
 

kid charlemagne

Well-known member
I wasn’t exactly specifying any team sport or sport…. Anything one would consider the ultimate dual…. I just spoke on my experience on pickup ball and how it led me to my own conclusion…. The experiences of professional athletes means nothing to me because those aren’t my experiences
 

GhostofKinski

Well-known member
I wasn’t exactly specifying any team sport or sport…. Anything one would consider the ultimate dual…. I just spoke on my experience on pickup ball and how it led me to my own conclusion…. The experiences of professional athletes means nothing to me because those aren’t my experiences
Thanks for specifying. The context is essential. And I agree with you. BB is the most accessible & easy to find a game this city has to offer. The masculinity part was where I got confused.
 

pattycakes

Well-known member
One thing about basketball that I love is the amount of style and grace encoded within. It's a feast for the eyes. From the courts to the kits to the actual play. It really flows, vs most of the other American sports which do a lot of stopping and starting
 
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