GhostofKinski
Well-known member
That sentence in particular sounds very much like the country whose methods we are, in the NOW, discussing.
Decolonise America
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
But you've just given a pro-colonial argument that permits taking any land for any reason because the colonised party supposedly had done so itself.
GhostofKinski
Well-known member
That’s incorrect. I’ve simply pointed out the historical precedence. If you (as you’ve stated) are anti-colonialism, very brave stance (way after the fact btw), then why do you defend the current slaughter?
I’ve stated quite clearly that had the internet/real time media technology existed in most colonial situations, they would not have gotten away with it. The US went to war not only with England, but with itself for less.
If someone in real time is being burned alive, do you ignore it and point to some supposed redress of crimes centuries old before standing up and facing it?
I think we are two very different people and I regret to say that this discussion is becoming pointless.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
I’ll let you have the last word on this subject.
There have continued to be what almost amounts to "industrial scale massacres" in your lifetime.
from forced sterilization programs, to forced assimilation at horrible indian boarding schools (where thousands also died), to several tribes being poisoned with uranium, etc.
some other stuff:
"Native Americans are killed in police encounters at a higher rate than any other racial or ethnic group in the United States. Native Americans are killed by police at 3 times the rate of White Americans and 2.6 times the rate of Black Americans, yet rarely do these deaths gain the national spotlight. The initial lack of media coverage and accountability has resulted in Indigenous-led movements such as Native Lives Matter and Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women, Girls, and People."
"Native Americans are disproportionately represented in state and federal criminal justice systems. Native Americans are incarcerated at a rate 38% higher than the national average and were overrepresented in the prison population in 19 states compared to any other race and ethnicity. The National Prisoner Statistics series of 2016 reported 22,744 Native Americans were incarcerated in state and federal facilities and represented 2.1 to 3.7% of the federal offender population during 2019 despite only accounting for 1.7% of the United States population. In states with higher Native American populations such as North Dakota, incarceration rates are up to 7 times that of their White counterparts. A study analyzing federal sentencing data found that Native Americans are sentenced more harshly than White, African American, and Hispanic offenders. In fact, further analysis showed that young Native American males receive the most punitive sentences, surpassing punishment imposed upon young, African American or Hispanic males."
"The healthcare system also demonstrates disregard for Native American lives by creating additional barriers to accessing care in the state system, which places a higher burden on the Indian Health Service that is already chronically underfunded and understaffed. Native Americans experience a higher rate of violent hate crime victimizations than any other race or ethnicity. Overall, Native Americans continue to experience racism, oppression, discrimination, microaggressions, mockery, and misunderstandings of current day Nativeness. The tandem exoticization and devaluation of Native American lives contributes to the epidemic of disappearances and murders of Native Americans, paired with delayed or poor investigations of these occurrences."
none of that is to say that mb is putting forward a reasonable argument, however
also, concerning the question posed to mvuent if they've even met a native american person, how does one know if they've met a native american person? Is it supposed to be obvious? Considering that more than 1% of the population is native american, and most don't live on reservations, it would be safe to assume that almost everyone has met native americans, even if unknowingly, if they've lived in the states for any length of time - possibly even those that live east of the mississippi.
ICE can't seem to tell who is native american, and I doubt a lot of other people can also tell, so it would be safe to assume you have met a native american person if you lived here for any length of time.
also, concerning the question posed to mvuent if they've even met a native american person, how does one know if they've met a native american person? Is it supposed to be obvious? Considering that more than 1% of the population is native american, and most don't live on reservations, it would be safe to assume that almost everyone has met native americans, even if unknowingly, if they've lived in the states for any length of time - possibly even those that live east of the mississippi.
ICE can't seem to tell who is native american, and I doubt a lot of other people can also tell, so it would be safe to assume you have met a native american person if you lived here for any length of time.
GhostofKinski
Well-known member
You have no idea how involved I’ve been in justice campaigns for Native Americans.
Beginning with the Leanard Peltier case I’ve been involved perhaps before you were even born (idk).
I served with, and have been hosted by more than a few NA’s and we have had deep meaningful conversations and bonds.
You are comparing these ongoing injustices to the massacre of Gazans happening as we speak, which is where you exposed your own bias in the very first paragraph.
GhostofKinski
Well-known member
It’s simply a false equivalence from my pov.
Idk if you copied/pasted the statistics or have them memorized but you can help too.
On a side note, and don’t want anyone this to come off the wrong way.
When I first got involved I was keen to show off my ‘Knowledge’ because I’d read a few books on the subject. If/when you meet/are invited to associate with most of them (who were from the AIM generation) there is a good chance off finding yourself knocked on your own ass. The people I knew despised young crusaders with a white savior complex (their term). Telling them about how they’ve been mistreated.
Not that one should have trot out their life experience before posting, altho I guess it's a case of damned if you do (which would amount to cringey "speaking from authority"), or damned if you don't (then people assume you're just some jumped-up kid).
In other words, if I were going to be "knocked on my ass", it would have happened decades ago - who do you think has continously been in my ear about all of this stuff?
mixed_biscuits
_________________________
No, you explicitly justified a refusal to decolonise for that reason. Secondly, whether I mention the moral imperative to decolonise is irrelevant to an ethical imperative that is implicit to the events themselves; that's why whataboutery and ad hominems cannot constitute rebuttals and are called "fallacies".