Can UK Hip Hop/Grime Blow Up In The States?

[Jezmi]

if Timbaland could give Bubba Sparx's goofy ass a hit with "Ugly", it's not inconcievable to think Kano or Dizzee could get one... but, would it still be grime then?

This makes me think of the different types of hip-hop: Crunk, Durty South, conscious Pihlly rap, gansta west coast (and please don't watch the classifications, cause I haven't been into rap since......well since Grime )
See, Usher's Yeah -- is that crunk? It's a mix, and more importantly it's an introduction for people that hadn't heard it before but get interested by the song.
I guess it's a bit like a palet where all the colours are mixed -- in the middle the colours are all the same but towards the edge you can define the original (and purer) colours.

Couldn't grime fulfill that role?

 

[Poisonous Dart]

Problem?

This makes me think of the different types of hip-hop: Crunk, Durty South, conscious Pihlly rap, gansta west coast (and please don't watch the classifications, cause I haven't been into rap since......well since Grime )
See, Usher's Yeah -- is that crunk? It's a mix, and more importantly it's an introduction for people that hadn't heard it before but get interested by the song.
I guess it's a bit like a palet where all the colours are mixed -- in the middle the colours are all the same but towards the edge you can define the original (and purer) colours.

Couldn't grime fulfill that role?

I actually don't consider them Hip Hop. Crunk is the authentic music that the people in Memphis, Atlanta and surrounding areas listen to in the clubs and cars there. Yeah! isn't Crunk, neither is anything Ciara makes...it does make Lil' Jon a VIABLE producer in Urban/Pop music in America, though...A REAL Crunk song would have to be edited like crazy..I'd rather not hear it at all.

Dirty South rap is more hip hop and less Crunk. The call and response is dialed WAY BACk and lyrics are more important...although the energy is more or less the same.

Grime would fit in more with the East Coast audience where the racial makeup/living conditions/quality of life/overall atmosphere and mindstate of Londoners most closely mirrors that section/region of the US. I hope that helps. One.

 

[atomly]

What if kids/heads in the US started MAKING Grime/Eski tracks? If that started happening, THEN do you think it would be possible for it to make headway in the States? Secondly, would Brits be offended if Americans made their own brand of Garage/Eski/Grime music? One.

This has started happening quite a bit in Chicago, actually. Our grime scene here is pretty much entirely hipster-based. It's not the hip hop scene at all, it's the kids who are into DFA/electro/Hollertronix and all that. We've actually gotten a lot of hype in the local press about it as well.

Anyway, a lot of the local producers are starting to get into making sort of grime/crunk crossover type stuff, so hopefully it'll blow up here. Lady Sovereign is playing tomorrow night-- I'm curious to see how that'll go over.

 

[Diggedy Derek]

Personally I always LOVE LOVE LOVE to hear grime mixes from the US. There's a less "analytical" approach to the mixes, ie bigger mixes of tracks and less regionalism, and it makes for some very very big mixes.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

What?

I see Grime fitting in New York, Boston, New England, Philadelphia, Delaware, Maryland, Washington D.C., and in the Midwest (Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, Indiana) and pretty much that's it..all of those urban areas could really get into it in my opinion. One.

 

[Logan Sama]

Funnily enough the places where Grime has had the most acceptance from the actual Hip Hop scene are Texas and Atlanta.

And here's another question, do you think Americans find Grime to be hard to get into mainly because of the production or the accents?

 

[Poisonous Dart]

Yes

Yeah, I'd actually have to agree with that one. I find that interesting because Atlanta and Texas already have their own sub genres of Hip Hop/culture popping off there (Crunk/Screwed). I'd think that the East to the Midwest would relate more because they don't have another sub genre of the music so Grime can have a place there...unless they see it as a British Crunk music. One.

 

[Freakaholic]

And here's another question, do you think Americans find Grime to be hard to get into mainly because of the production or the accents?

Its hard for me to discuss "Americans" in such a broad sense. Ive noticed how our underground scene has devleoped a lot differently from Europe's because of the vast expanse that America covers. So Americans as a whole accepting Grime really cant happen until it becomes marketed in a mass way. There will be pockets of acceptance, as there are, in urban areas that tend to be more aware of cultural occurrences outside their own borders (hence the "blue" states). But for a major acceptance along the lines of Hip Hop, or even house, would take marketing. Marketing fuels the entire industry.

On the other hand the fact that we are in the "internet age" is very apparent through the fact that there ARE DJs in America spinning grime. There IS a crowd to see it (Both Dizzee Rascal and most recently Lady Sovereign sold out clubs that Roots Manuva or DJ Spooky couldnt, the man at the door said her label did a great job promoting), so I think when you ask about Americans, you gotta ask two different questions. 1) Will there be an underground appeal, creating "scenes" like techno or jungle, or 2) Will it eventually be accepted by the masses after the labels market it nationwide?

 

[gumdrops]

its expecting too much for grime to capture the attention of the masses in the US. that would require a lot of promo and marketing $$$ and if the UK labels arent even doing that, there's little hope the american label offices are going to fork out. youre better off hoping to build it off as an underground thing. all this rush for grime to blow up blow up blow up everywhere isnt really doing much for it, and its creating false, raised hopes.

 

[Jezmi]

One way to look into the future is to look to the past.
So what past scene does Grime resemble in development ways?
I, for one, don't have a clue. Don't know much about past underground scenes...

 

[gumdrops]

theres a LOT in grime's development that mirrors hip-hop quite eerily, and then you can look at punk as well obviously, and then there's garage and jungle as well... its a different climate today though, grime is a different music, and its own aims/expectations/sound/growth etc etc is quite distinct to anything before so ive personally kinda given up looking at past scenes to judge grime's future...

 

[MATT MAson]

The way subcultures evolve has evolved so much, that I think it's going to be hard for any kind of music scene to blow like those of the past. These days it seems to fragment at the same rate media does. I'm in the middle of writing a book about this at the moment.

Grime is doing ok on a very underground level here in New York. People come to the shows and support (apart from when Kano cleared out East River Park like a giant leaf blower), but this is how New York works. On one street you can get some weird cheese they only make in one monestary in Peru. Across from there is a little boutique selling hand made sun-dried tomato organic jeans from Japan. Round the corner there is a riot going on because some graffiti artist wrote his name on a pair of dunks, and over there a kid from East London in town making this weird new rap that kind of sounds like a Benny Hill sketch over a ragga tune. If it's quirky and weird, it will do well in NYC. Doesn't mean Wiley is gonna be on the Bill O'Reilly show one day.

But I do know people here, poor Black and Hispanic people, not just 'hipsters', who are making Grime, are bang into it and totally get it. I'm talking about literally a handful, but it's happening. It's not unusual for sounds to spread between countries and be reinterpreted by a new crowd (e.g. New Orleans R&B becomes Reggae, Disco becomes Acid House, which is then reinterpreted by West Coast America etc etc). So whilst I'm not hopeful about grime "blowing" here, it might be re-interpreted as something else, and dance music could once again make a difference to a whole new crowd and help a new generation of people rise up and speak out. And thats needed over here more than it is in the UK right now. I don't think Grime will blow, but it would be as good for poor American people as it would for poor British people if it did.

 

[gumdrops]

it might end up being absorbed into R&B and hip hop in some way, similar to how drum & bass programming ideas ended up in R&B and hip hop in the mid/late 90s via timbaland (even though he still denies ever hearing drum & bass to this day). id be really interested to hear what the americans' take on grime is though.

 

[Poisonous Dart]

That's crazy!

it might end up being absorbed into R&B and hip hop in some way, similar to how drum & bass programming ideas ended up in R&B and hip hop in the mid/late 90s via timbaland (even though he still denies ever hearing drum & bass to this day). id be really interested to hear what the americans' take on grime is though.

I remember that happening during an MTV interview with Kurt Loder way back in either 1998 or 1999. He said he never heard of drum n' bass in his entire life...I thought that he, Lemon D and Dilinja from the Metalheadz were all sharing a brain at the time if you listened to their beats. That always cracked me up. One.

 

[atomly]

it might end up being absorbed into R&B and hip hop in some way, similar to how drum & bass programming ideas ended up in R&B and hip hop in the mid/late 90s via timbaland (even though he still denies ever hearing drum & bass to this day). id be really interested to hear what the americans' take on grime is though.

I swear I distinctly remember him namechecking Photek and specifically saying that he inspired him to chop all the decay off his snares.

 

[SIZZLE]

I think a lot of people over emphasize the influence of UK music on Timbaland. You don't have to look too far from Virginia beach to find Bass Music and Bounce Music, a more clear influence to my ears. That and his repeated denials ought to be enough to put that one to rest.

Speaking of Photek did anyone hear the hiphop 12" he released? It's called We Got Heat, I forget the MCs name, he was pretty lackluster american unknown but the beat is sick.

I'd be really interested to hear what the people in NYC Matt Mason referred to are making, anyone releasing?

 

[gumdrops]

i dont think anyone is saying timbaland owes his *entire* musical MO to drum & bass, just that some of his early rhythmic ideas sounded quite influenced by it. yeah of course bass and bounce would have been important but considering timbaland has been shopping at honest jons and spends thousands on 'world' sounds, i dont its that far fetched to think he might have been keeping abreast of what was happening in other countries like england at the time too.

 

[Logan Sama]

Timbaland was lying.

Champion Sound thieving cheeky monkey

 

[gumdrops]

yeah - the reason he kept vehmently denying he had even HEARD drum & bass was cos he didnt want anyone thinking his most famous early innovation (the double time programming) was inspired by something already out there. which is pretty arrogant if you ask me.

in the recent issue of scratch magazine that timbaland graced the cover of, they didnt even bother mentioning drum & bass once.

 

[joeschmo]

<i>the reason he kept vehmently denying he had even HEARD drum & bass was cos he didnt want anyone thinking his most famous early innovation (the double time programming) was inspired by something already out there.</i>

that's entirely speculation. one could just as easily argue that the persistence of the timbaland-stole-from-jungle-meme is due to the desperation of uk urban music heads to see the music they believe to be so ahead of its time validated outside of its own back yard, because really, it hasn't been to this day....