press release for new aphex twin album 'chosen lords'

[matt b]

It sounds to me (in places, at least - I'm not too keen on Drukqs) like inspired music.

I think, though, that the difference between 'nicking stuff from drum and bass and using it to produce inspired, original, mental sounding music' and 'nicking stuff from drum and bass and using it to produce a forced attempt to keep up' is based on whether or not you actually like the records, rather than vice versa. So we might have to agree to differ on that one.

you've got to remember that jungle/ drum'n'bass and 'drill'n'bass' had no links between that at all- afx might play supersharpshooter, but there was NO way that zinc would ever play anything on rephlex.

dubstep is the first time i can think of where the two camps communicate directly

 

[Slothrop]

you've got to remember that jungle/ drum'n'bass and 'drill'n'bass' had no links between that at all- afx might play supersharpshooter, but there was NO way that zinc would ever play anything on rephlex.

I'm not denying that RDJ et al had an essentially parasitical (although I prefer 'magpie like') relationship with proper drum and bass, just saying that this doesn't effect whether or not I like their records.

dubstep is the first time i can think of where the two camps communicate directly

Yeah, although it'll be intersting to see whether the Planet Mu / proper drum and bass crossover works to the benefit of both or just in their roster of junglists moving from being unusually interesting drum and bass to unusually repetitive IDM. The latter looks more likely, but I'm an eternal optimist.

 

[droid]

you've got to remember that jungle/ drum'n'bass and 'drill'n'bass' had no links between that at all- afx might play supersharpshooter, but there was NO way that zinc would ever play anything on rephlex.

Ive oft wondered about this in relation to Squarepushers infamous attempts to gain entry to the Jungle 'scene'. From over this side of the water, divorced from the social aspect of the music, Jega/Plug/Squarepusher et al were just another varient of the jungle gene... and having being sucked in by Jungles seemingly unique and endless ability to absorb and mutate new influences I took the utter rejection of drill+bass by the jungilists fairly hard.. almost a betrayal of the abstract 'anything goes' principle that (IMO) made Hardcore great...

It can also be quite informative to look back on Jungles golden age (93/94) and check out the amount of seriously mashed up tunes that came out - many of them rivalling the drill+bassists for intensity and madness.. DJ SS's 'Ruffige' instantly springs to mind - but I guess thats the whole scenius v genius thing though...

Couple of related threads here from some moons ago for the newbs.

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?p=12496

http://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=756&page=1&pp=15

 

[DigitalDjigit]

Yeah, although it'll be intersting to see whether the Planet Mu / proper drum and bass crossover works to the benefit of both or just in their roster of junglists moving from being unusually interesting drum and bass to unusually repetitive IDM. The latter looks more likely, but I'm an eternal optimist.

The sense of superiority there is just staggering. Why do you look down upon drum and bass that way? Ok, so it frequently very dumb, by-the-numbers music but so is IDM. It's like all these nerds who have a superiority complex glommed onto IDM because it had Intelligent in it and allowed them to feel superior and then they look down upon those silly d'n'b producers playing in the sandbox.

And the scenius vs. genius...are you implying that those IDM people are genius? There's just as much of a scene and copying and formula in IDM as there is in d'n'b. I think IDM at this point is mostly American with isolated dorks in Alabama (and such places) releasing copy-cat Autechre/Squarepusher material.

Lastly, there's a good case to be made that Autechre is really rave music despite their recorded output. Their live performances are very different and their statements confirm their rave roots/goals. http://www.muzprosvet.ru/ has some interesting thoughts about Autechre in the archive section but unfortunately it's in Russian.

 

[matt b]

Lastly, there's a good case to be made that Autechre is really rave music despite their recorded output.

oh yes. AE live= bangin'

 

[droid]

And the scenius vs. genius...are you implying that those IDM people are genius? There's just as much of a scene and copying and formula in IDM as there is in d'n'b. I think IDM at this point is mostly American with isolated dorks in Alabama (and such places) releasing copy-cat Autechre/Squarepusher material.

Er - it was I who mentioned scenius v genius, implying that Plug/Jega/Squarepusher/Aphex were individual 'geniuses' who produced insane music, but that the logic of the scene itself the 'scenius' also produced insane music, which wasnt excluded because it had a place in the social and economic network of the scene...

I also think its fair to say that there was no real IDM 'scene' until the late 90s. (im using IDM to refer to faster and rhythmically breakbeat influenced tunes - post RDJ)

 

[Slothrop]

Yeah, although it'll be intersting to see whether the Planet Mu / proper drum and bass crossover works to the benefit of both or just in their roster of junglists moving from being unusually interesting drum and bass to unusually repetitive IDM. The latter looks more likely, but I'm an eternal optimist.

The sense of superiority there is just staggering. Why do you look down upon drum and bass that way? Ok, so it frequently very dumb, by-the-numbers music but so is IDM. It's like all these nerds who have a superiority complex glommed onto IDM because it had Intelligent in it and allowed them to feel superior and then they look down upon those silly d'n'b producers playing in the sandbox.

Sorry, I may have been unclear. I don't view either form as being 'superior' - they're just different. My worry wasn't that Sileni, Breakage and Equinox are producing music that's okay for drum and bass but not up to the standards of IDM - it'd be pretty hard to be not up to the standards of IDM at the moment - more that they might get their music watered down and isolated from the scene, and end up with something like late nineties fusion / album drum and bass, but with glitches in the place of sax samples.

The mutual benefit of a crossover would come from the fact that when two different cultures meet, there's a good chance that they'll each be able to nick interesting ideas from the other (and much as I love them, imho both genres could benefit from a few more interesting ideas at the moment), not just that the drum and bass idiots will be glad to have crumbs of wisdom passed down to them.

As a further tangent, one thing that might interestingly move from IDM to drum and bass is the various software that makes live laptop performances an interesting and creative possibility rather than a slightly boring novelty. It finally seems to be moving out of being a desperate effort to return 'virtuosity' to electronic music, and might be turning into an even more direct version of the dublates -> dancefloor -> studio feedback loop.

 

[hamarplazt]

It sounds to me (in places, at least - I'm not too keen on Drukqs) like inspired music.

I think, though, that the difference between 'nicking stuff from drum and bass and using it to produce inspired, original, mental sounding music' and 'nicking stuff from drum and bass and using it to produce a forced attempt to keep up' is based on whether or not you actually like the records, rather than vice versa. So we might have to agree to differ on that one.

Well, I actually do like the RDJ-album, and I think the melodies sound inspired. It's simply the use of breakbeats that is, well, pointless, really. They're strictly ornamentary and don't add anything essential to the music. Some people can make ornamentary music work, but it have never been one of Aphex' strenghts.

 

[mms]

Well, I actually do like the RDJ-album, and I think the melodies sound inspired. It's simply the use of breakbeats that is, well, pointless, really. They're strictly ornamentary and don't add anything essential to the music. Some people can make ornamentary music work, but it have never been one of Aphex' strenghts.

i think they are essential and very enjoyable, bring a total fairground wizz to the whole thing, esp girl/boy which is total anarchic fun and would be very crap without the ridiculous drums .

 

[hamarplazt]

i'm being difficult. the plug eps were the first 'drill'n'bass' records that got afx, mu-ziq etc started on the jungle tip.

Yes, but as soon as he had begun, it seemed like the three of them hyped each other to go more and more in that direction. Eventually, I think µ-ziq is the one who lost most in the process. His first three albums were so wonderful and idiosyncratic, but his later stuff is just far too much like standart drill'n'IDM-buffoonery.

 

[hamarplazt]

Ive oft wondered about this in relation to Squarepushers infamous attempts to gain entry to the Jungle 'scene'. From over this side of the water, divorced from the social aspect of the music, Jega/Plug/Squarepusher et al were just another varient of the jungle gene...

His early Conumber-EP was actually very, very close to other kinds of jungle at the time. I heard it before drill'n'bass really developed, and didn't see it as being in opposition to the rest of drum'n'bass in any way.

 

[hamarplazt]

i think they are essential and very enjoyable, bring a total fairground wizz to the whole thing, esp girl/boy which is total anarchic fun and would be very crap without the ridiculous drums .

Well, I didn't say he shouldn't use drums, but I think that the fairground ridiculousness could have worked much better with different kinds of, and less cluttered, drums. He could have used all sorts of freaky percussion sounds, so why insist on the breakbeats as the source again and again? That's why it seems forced.

 

[hamarplazt]

oh yes. AE live= bangin'

Indeed, saw them live last year and was truly overwhelmed. Even though I've been into all kinds of hardcore rave music for more than a decade, the first time someone ever comes up to me and ask me if I know where they can get some e, is at an Autechre concert. Twice.

 

[droid]

His early Conumber-EP was actually very, very close to other kinds of jungle at the time. I heard it before drill'n'bass really developed, and didn't see it as being in opposition to the rest of drum'n'bass in any way.

All the spymania stuff is like that, as are a lot of his earlier remixes. Id say the same for Luke Vibert (who came closest to acceptance with his remix of Boymerang). If anything Conumber and Allory road tracks are fairly mundane compared to a lot of Jungle proper that was coming out at the time. Nice drums, but no bass!

Yer OTM on U-ziq by the way. The first 3 Lps (and associated EPs) are his best work.

 

[joeschmo]

All I can say is, that when I heard SAW2, my immediate reaction was: "Hey, that's just Eno", which disappointed me, since I've heard so much about this guy breaking all sorts of musical limits and being the future of techno/electronica/whatever, and then all he did was recycle ideas that had been around for so long.

I don't really base my enjoyment of music on whether it's "revolutionary" in some form. It's nice when somebody does something truly new, but it rarely happens and it's not the only mark of quality by a long shot. I hadn't heard Eno at the time, although I was aware some people thought there was a connection, but I didn't enjoy the album because I'd been brainwashed into thinking it was a musical breakthrough, and I could have cared less that it wasn't once I had listened to Eno ambient. He didn't "recycle" Eno, he took Eno's ideas and did his own thing with them. Ambient is a whole genre unto itself, it's not like only one guy gets to do it.

 

[hamarplazt]

I don't really base my enjoyment of music on whether it's "revolutionary" in some form. It's nice when somebody does something truly new, but it rarely happens and it's not the only mark of quality by a long shot. I hadn't heard Eno at the time, although I was aware some people thought there was a connection, but I didn't enjoy the album because I'd been brainwashed into thinking it was a musical breakthrough, and I could have cared less that it wasn't once I had listened to Eno ambient. He didn't "recycle" Eno, he took Eno's ideas and did his own thing with them. Ambient is a whole genre unto itself, it's not like only one guy gets to do it.

Yes, that's what I learned later, but at the time the Eno connection was pretty much the one ambient connection I could make, and it came to me automatically when hearing SAW2. And no, music don't have to be revolutionary to be good, but then, if there hadn't been that hype about Aphex, I might never have heard him in the first place. So: 1) He reminded me of Eno right away 2) He didn't live up to the hype, but 3) Was brilliant anyway. OK?

 

[joeschmo]

 

[Constance Labounty]

Even though I've been into all kinds of hardcore rave music for more than a decade, the first time someone ever comes up to me and ask me if I know where they can get some e, is at an Autechre concert. Twice.

Thats just cuz they weren't ravers so didn't know where to get it! Or maybe cuz you're the most ravey looking person at autechre concerts but don't stand out at raves.

 

[Constance Labounty]

And the scenius vs. genius...are you implying that those IDM people are genius? There's just as much of a scene and copying and formula in IDM as there is in d'n'b. I think IDM at this point is mostly American with isolated dorks in Alabama (and such places) releasing copy-cat Autechre/Squarepusher material.

LOL. There's no idm in alabama. Trust that. There's no 'intelligent' anything.

And scenius vs genius is just a phrase people use. Genius doesn't refer to particularly smart people but just isolated artists doing their own unique thing.

 

[tate]

I think IDM at this point is mostly American with isolated dorks in Alabama (and such places) releasing copy-cat Autechre/Squarepusher material.

haha, made me laugh. are you referring to telefon tel aviv? They're from New Orleans, I believe, but yes, OTM if so. I've only heard their first record, the opening track was lovely, but the rest of the record was a snooze