Reynolds' Pazz & Jopp essay
- Thread starter gek-opel
- Start date
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nomadologist
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I don't know, Guybrush. You're very discriminating in your taste and keep very up-to-date on American music trends, even R&B and hip-hop stuff that I can't imagine too many Scandinavians are into, right? I would say in terms of your market-share, your cache in the marketplace, you're functionally a "hipster."
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nomadologist
Guest
Exactly. I get so sick of that, anyway. I don't mind hipsters unless they have trustfunds and don't work for their food/shelter.
slight OT, but the pejorative element to hipsterdom has a long history in the US. It's definitely been used in anti-Nazi and anti-Commie propaganda campaigns.
I wouldn't underestimate how mainstream big business pop can and will incorporate any underground trend once it's big enough.
If nothing else marketing and economics will see to that.
This is true, but only within certain bounds, ie exactly as you say that the underground trend is large enough. These are not in any sense large enough to facilitate anything even resembling a mainstream takeover.
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nomadologist
Guest
we're all just different shades on the grayscale that is consumerdom. no need to get self-righteous about our own mode of consumerism. we're all doing the same thing on a different level, a different stage on the consumer "food chain." personally i'd rather be setting trends than blindly following them, even if i abandon a trend quickly and dismiss it later.
wasn't that more in terms of a black/avantgarde culture aware beatnick type identity tho?
N
nomadologist
Guest
cool blog, shudder
true. today's "hipster" I suppose has only shades of that.
N
nomadologist
Guest
isn't that what's fun about it? i'm multitasking in like 55 tabs as it is
I think you have to relate it back to a point that Reynolds' made ages ago, which is that there are two patterns of consumption which characterise hipsterism: post-modern omnivorousness at the level of fashion, and a more committed scene "burrowing" (like Woebot and Italian prog or whatever). I think there can also be a distinction to be drawn as you have Nomadologist between producers and consumers.
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nomadologist
Guest
Hm. I can see a way to make that distinction between the omnivorous type and the burrower. But aren't both different methods of achieving the same end--carving out individual identity through indentification with fetish objects, commodity fetishes?
I think being a productive force is the only way to stem the tidal wave that is consumption. (like when Deleuze talks about desiring machines in productive mode)
I think being a productive force is the only way to stem the tidal wave that is consumption. (like when Deleuze talks about desiring machines in productive mode)
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
No, a takeover is very unlikely. It's unlikely a whole country can get that excited about a new style of music again. Imagine!
I just meant incorporation. Imagine a druggy / slightly political ballad with an eco message somewhat akin melodically to the Stranglers 'Golden Brown' but utilising Om style mantric bass guitar chordage and deep wobbly subs along with noisy interludes. Hey, it's a hit.
Right now McIndie sells. In the near future it could be McIndie with McDronestep stylings.
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nomadologist
Guest
Yeah, Noel, I can conceive of that, but you do have to prepare the radio-trained ear for non-linear, dissonant music that doesn't resolve. It would be a bit of a process to get the unwashed masses ready for anything OM-like, even McOM-styled generic indie.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Maybe, but there were points where people thought that about hip-hop, electro, house, jungle, and even indie rock.
x-post @ Gek
x-post @ Gek
I agree that production is the escape (see also Jacques Attali)... however would you reduce the appeal of all music within consumer capitalism to mere identification with fetish objects to manipulate self-identity?
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nomadologist
Guest
I wouldn't reduce all of the appeal of music or its appreciation on the individual level to identification with commodity fetishes, but I would look at all consumption of music in terms of buying music from x or y genre, in terms of participation in a marketplace, as significant culturally in ways that a more far-reaching than the individual's aesthetic appreciation of music itself. In other words: liking music is one thing, buying CDs is another.
Yer sure, but pure-drone stuff is so far outside of the utilitarian remit of populist music as to be useless (ie- no beat, no melody=useless as club music, useless as modern nursery rhyme fodder). Dubstep could cross over easily though, with the right vocalist.