Reynolds' Pazz & Jopp essay

[mistersloane]

You're right about noise being about immanence, but I see it as is essentially millenarianism, the beginning of last century was the same, breaking down of order in order to get to something new. Metal is similar, especially the more riff base work. Certainly it's all O'Malley does, when we got him to program films it was all 'Threads' and shit.

What I think noise does is deal with radioactivity - theories of being irradiated - and the feeling of being exploded, of literally being blown apart, which of course is what's going to happen at some point, to some part of us on the earth. Music is generally the first artform to pick up psychically upon what form of horror is immanent unto us. It's just up to ( us ) as musicians to try and
a) either prepare the audience for the shock of it happening
b) divert it from happening, if you believe in the power of symbolism. To summise, it's about getting nuked.

I'm suprised Reynolds didn't go into that, or maybe he did, I only skimmed the article.

 

[gek-opel]

That's the vibe that I get, maybe not as specific as nuclear death, but some kind of attempt towards a physicalising of horror-- more like being frozen and unable to do anything in the face of unimaginable forces of destruction- the music of dubstep, noise and drone-metal is somewhere between the viscous glue preventing one from acting, and the force of the destruction itself. Reynolds' has promised us more on this soon, so hopefully there will be some further extrapolation (but probably more on the hipster-metal interaction rather than on the psychic necessity of this music happening now...) tis a shame he's not actually interested in this music (or not in a committed way) cos this is very much soundtrack for this time, as far as I can tell.

 

[mistersloane]

That's the vibe that I get, maybe not as specific as nuclear death, but some kind of attempt towards a physicalising of horror-- more like being frozen and unable to do anything in the face of unimaginable forces of destruction- the music of dubstep, noise and drone-metal is somewhere between the viscous glue preventing one from acting, and the force of the destruction itself. Reynolds' has promised us more on this soon, so hopefully there will be some further extrapolation (but probably more on the hipster-metal interaction rather than on the psychic necessity of this music happening now...) tis a shame he's not actually interested in this music (or not in a committed way) cos this is very much soundtrack for this time, as far as I can tell.

Yeah he should just shut the fuck up if he can't write anything positive lol. And he's totally wrong about the drug, it's ketamine, weed is just everyday life.

 

[shudder]

pity he don't post round here no more, since I doubt his 'official' blissbloggin' will quite explore this angle.

 

[gek-opel]

He's a good conceptualizer tho, so even if he's negative I'm pleased he's writing about the interesting stuff again, he seemed pretty bereft without grime...

Oh and the Xasthur album he mentions in passing on Blissblog, "subliminal genocide"... actually very good, almost shoegaze black metal...

 

[dHarry]

He was logged on for a while earlier, tho, while this thread was smokin'!

Interesting that all the discussion of dubstep relates to halfstep but definitely not the day-glo primary coloured digi-plastic reggae of Kromestar's Iron Dread, Skream's Dutch flowers etc.

 

[gek-opel]

True.. . There are lots of threads to dubstep that don't resolve as easily into bass-materialism, from Mala's current mutant almost-4/4 weird-step, (some of which sounds almost Throbbing Gristle-esque in the manner of the Clipse's "Mr Me too"- dirty fuzzy mucky synths, not high tech in the slightest...) to the light digidub stuff that's more like comical ska skank fodder than anything, to the minimal crossover stuff that favours delicacy and elegance...

 

[nomadologist]

So many interesting points I missed later. I think Dunninger is right about the early abandonment thing with hipsters, it's important to remember the window of opportunity is rather small and hard for the industry to climb through when it comes to turning a truly "avant" genre into something palatable for the radio-listening masses.

I'm finding myself wishing I'd heard more of the Sun o)))), Boris type of stuff so I'd have a better means for comparison. I hesitate here because I don't know that they've entirely abandoned the phallic symbolic significance of the guitar (especially it still being so central)--part of me says, well, they've taken it almost in a shoegazey textural direction, they're used to propel songs forward rhythmically, and part of me says they're still just trying to "rock" to let out all of that male rage born of the kind of repression that's unfortunately still a huge part of the average adolescent's life, not to mention everyone else's.

Maybe it's especially important music in theory just because it doesn't seem to fit into any existing mold. I still don't see these sorts of hipster metal bands taking over the airwaves sonically in a large way, or taking the place of good old boys like Metallica and Slayer in the U.S. But I'd be interested in seeing any numbers on the album sales for the hipster metal labels.

My biggest issue, as always, with a "negative" sort of musical hermeneutics is based on not liking to be so damned chained down to clock-time and "seasons" that are as abstract as "years." I think marketplaces have their own natural rhythms that are outside of the earth/stars/heavenly bodies ones we use to tell time and go to work everyday.

 

[gek-opel]

I'm finding myself wishing I'd heard more of the Sun o)))), Boris type of stuff so I'd have a better means for comparison. I hesitate here because I don't know that they've entirely abandoned the phallic symbolic significance of the guitar (especially it still being so central)--part of me says, well, they've taken it almost in a shoegazey textural direction, they're used to propel songs forward rhythmically, and part of me says they're still just trying to "rock" to let out all of that male rage born of the kind of repression that's unfortunately still a huge part of the average adolescent's life, not to mention everyone else's. .

Its not so much shoegaze (for metalgaze stuff people like Jesu are more apposite...) they don't really do songs at all for the most part, and they have no rhythmic thrust really. Live-wise it is rock boiled down to its basic ritualistic component, a kind of ridiculous/sublime mass if you like. Because they don't "rock" per se, the guitars retain a phallic significance but without aggression, a mere stroking here and there to continue the waves of feedbacking drone, so the affect for the players is that of a kind of tantric restraint... the power coming sonically and not rhythmically. In interviews Stephen O'Malley (the Sunn0))) mainstay) states that often his playing in the drone/feedback segments consists mainly of tiny hand movements enough to generate different overtones etc... the power is that of the amplification and technology, not the physical force of the player upon the penis-object, indeed they have played all moog synth gigs, very difficult to notice the difference... there is a kind of dissonance between the framing as masculinist/aggressive METAL! and the drone heavy conents and non-machismo playing styles (almost clit-stroke, rather than cock-out rock)

My biggest issue, as always, with a "negative" sort of musical hermeneutics is based on not liking to be so damned chained down to clock-time and "seasons" that are as abstract as "years." I think marketplaces have their own natural rhythms that are outside of the earth/stars/heavenly bodies ones we use to tell time and go to work everyday.

Absolutely agreed... the same thing with decades as well, trends refuse to sit on these ridiculous human-imposed grids... rather interacting with more notable factors like economics, technology and politics.

 

[nomadologist]

Huh, the O'Malley interview you mention definitely piques my interest. I should give this stuff a try, because his methods sound like something I'd approve of sonically--I love guitars when they're used for noise and drone. Maybe some of the reason why the residue of phallogocentrism might stick to people's perceptions of the new hipster metal is because the imagery surrounding it, the long-haired metal guy look, is so associated with blue-collar sort of cockrock energy in the U.S., and hipsters have been mining this "ironically" for a while now. Sounds like this is probably unfair, but I'll admit I'd probably go for the same exact thing in a different package (maybe if they dressed in very stark dark clothing withtout some of the sweatiness...?), and that could keep me from hearing something I'd like.

In terms of the aesthetic cycles I've observed, I think we're still just at the tail end of a very Timbaland/Neptunes-led reference-point maximal pop futurist minimalism. Something's gonna creep up on us...

 

[gek-opel]

Although the best "hipster metal" (ugh) release is probably Corrupted's "Llenandose de Gusanos" and that's pretty aggressive, although by spacing said aggression across one single 50 minute piece (with 17 minute long classical piano/mumbling Spanish intro) the effect is somewhat different, not trance inducing by any means tho... but then I have a soft spot for the grotesquely grandiloquent.

I think you must be correct re: Timba-tunes aesthetic domination of production pop/hip hop/r'n'b coming to a close, but what precisely comes AFTER?

 

[noel emits]

Sunn O))) dress in robes. It's hilarious AND awesome.

 

[tht]

srsly i like the way simon reynolds is trying to follow cutting edge trends like wolf eyes that comes in at #277 and fails to acknowledge hyperconsumer trends further up the list like

Casiotone for the Painfully Alone - Etiquette
Kweller, Ben - Ben Kweller
Archie Bronson Outfit - Derdang Derdang
Kris Kristofferson - This Old Road

I think marketplaces have their own natural rhythms that are outside of the earth/stars/heavenly bodies ones we use to tell time and go to work everyday

No sequence to follow
No fear of tomorrow
Kiss of neverness
Life of timelessness
We'll break the speed of change
We'll tame eternity

the pop group understood this a long time ago, capital shall not know the discontents of newtonian temporality!

 

[nomadologist]

I think you must be correct re: Timba-tunes aesthetic domination of production pop/hip hop/r'n'b coming to a close, but what precisely comes AFTER?

You don't ever know until it gets here. That's the fun part--waiting, maybe guessing. (maybe trying to make it happen yourself)

THT: Like that song. Wouldn't have thought to apply the lyrics here, but it works.

 

[nomadologist]

Sunn O))) dress in robes. It's hilarious AND awesome.

oh damn! but doesn't that keep them well within the "ironic" viewpoint that bothers people about hipster music. like when jed stromm from trash fashion wears the big plastic bling and the hypercolored spandex?

 

[gek-opel]

srsly i like the way simon reynolds is trying to follow cutting edge trends like wolf eyes that comes in at #277 and fails to acknowledge hyperconsumer trends further up the list

The only real global narrative is fragmentation, as depending on yr reading the list can viewed as moving ever more indie-wards, or pop-wards, or underground noise-wards. All are kind of true...

 

[noel emits]

oh damn! but doesn't that keep them well within the "ironic" viewpoint that bothers people about hipster music. like when jed stromm from trash fashion wears the big plastic bling and the hypercolored spandex?

Not really. I think it means that they 'mean it' and are dead serious, but also have to acknowledge that that in itself can be kind of daft.

It's only ironic in as much as Kraftwerk are ironic. It's humorous, not sneering.

 

[nomadologist]

it's the grand narratives that don't work anymore, it's not that music isn't good

 

[dHarry]

In interviews Stephen O'Malley (the Sunn0))) mainstay) states that often his playing in the drone/feedback segments consists mainly of tiny hand movements enough to generate different overtones etc... the power is that of the amplification and technology, not the physical force of the player upon the penis-object,
... there is a kind of dissonance between the framing as masculinist/aggressive METAL! and the drone heavy conents and non-machismo playing styles (almost clit-stroke, rather than cock-out rock)

I might be preaching to the unconvertable here, but this has an interesting parallel with Kevin Shields' self-professed technique of anti-musicianly guitar playing, just a basic bar chords & right hand scratching + tremelo bar bending, and describing it as noise generating machine (after the Ramones, who he said inspired this idea of the guitar as infinite noise generator); very Deleuzo-Guattarian also, machinicity, immanent process without transcendent telos or heirarchy. MBV more obviously less mono-gendered music than metal... but still there's the hardcore punk influence on Feed Me With Your Kiss & You Made Me Realise, generally the tension between incompatibilities - male punk rage/female tenderness, nihilism/love, noise/melody etc.

 

[nomadologist]

i just don't know if like the idea of using those binaries, dHarry, even if it's in the service of challenging them. for MBV, I think it's kind of strange to just flip the binary upside down between male rage/female tenderness, especially because not all women are all that tender when it comes to sex. i don't like the expectation there. we don't all like to cook and sew, either.

i know MBV would never say that, but something strikes me as off about that...it's sort of the feeling i get from a lot of "indie" guys where it seems they're putting on a show of being "sensitive" artsy types because they know that will get them laid. which puts them in exactly the same league as other horny guys trying to get laid, but they try to spin it like they're more in touch with feminism or something...