Ragga Jungle

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droid

Guest
benjybars said:
ok, here's a question - does anyone know if the ragga/vocal side of jungle ever got any kind of exposure in Jamaica?? did the Barrington Levy, Bounty Killer vocal tracks ever make it big out there for example?
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There were of course a few JA attempts at jungle (Steelie and Cleevie w/Ninjman for example - theres a thread about that stuff somewhere I think), so it is fair to say that there must have been some exposure. I also played some ragga jungle to a few people when I was in Jamaica a couple of years back, and they seemed familiar with the style...

As for JA Djs and singers knowing about it - almost certainly, as many of them voiced directly over jungle tunes... redrose, daddy freddy, pliers, frankie paul...
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
droid said:
There were of course a few JA attempts at jungle (Steelie and Cleevie w/Ninjman for example - theres a thread about that stuff somewhere I think), so it is fair to say that there must have been some exposure. I also played some ragga jungle to a few people when I was in Jamaica a couple of years back, and they seemed familiar with the style...

As for JA Djs and singers knowing about it - almost certainly, as many of them voiced directly over jungle tunes... redrose, daddy freddy, pliers, frankie paul...
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wouldn't a lot of deejays, esp. more cultural types, possibly lump jungle into the general category of "Babylon music"? not the guys who've directly voiced jungle tracks of course. I was watching an old Channel 4 doc on jungle on Youtube awhile back & there was a segment where this black producer went down to a community center somewhere in London to promote a rave & got hassled by some older dreads for playing "acid music". but then on the other hand, Congo Natty & Terry T. are there any other Rastafarian jungle producers? were there back in the 90s?
 
M

mms

sometimes
droid said:
There were of course a few JA attempts at jungle (Steelie and Cleevie w/Ninjman for example - theres a thread about that stuff somewhere I think), so it is fair to say that there must have been some exposure. I also played some ragga jungle to a few people when I was in Jamaica a couple of years back, and they seemed familiar with the style...

As for JA Djs and singers knowing about it - almost certainly, as many of them voiced directly over jungle tunes... redrose, daddy freddy, pliers, frankie paul...
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greensleeves did a bunch of jungle records, as did jetstar


festival favorite greetings ina jungle style.
 
D

droid

Guest
Yeah - but I was thinking more of JA producers who made jungle rather than UK producers using DJs or acapellas.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
droid said:
Yeah, 'Acid' by Frankie Paul being the exemplar. John Eden's written about this in depth:

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2004/06/4/17/
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actually that post is exactly what I was thinking about. the quote from the Unity Sound dude complaining about Shut Up & Dance (unsung heroes if there ever were) going down to dances to steal MCs off his sound is great.

mms said:
greensleeves did a bunch of jungle records, as did jetstar.
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yeh but like Droid said those were reggae labels (Jungle Fashion too, well we're at it) cashing in on what for them was a fad tangentially related to their main focus. a better example would be Top Cat with his own jungle label though he's of course British.
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I've got one of those Greensleeves ragga jungle compilations, its a tiny bit piss poor.

- dj rap - intelligent woman
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Corpsey said:
I've got one of those Greensleeves ragga jungle compilations, its a tiny bit piss poor.

- dj rap - intelligent woman
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which one? I've only got one (Ragga Jungle Anthems Vol. 1) but it's terrific just about all the way through; "Under Me Sensi", "Two Sounds Jungle", that Dawn Penn/Bounty Killer joint, "Bad Boy Lick Shot" etc etc it seems like a lot of the better comps as well were, in true reggae & jungle style, one-offs on dodgy labels.
 
P

petergunn

plywood violin
Corpsey said:
Number 2 is the one I've got

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Ragga-Jungle-Anthems-Vol-2/release/263891

the first one looks much better. To be fair I haven't actually given this one much of a chance because the pressing is very poor quality, but I couldn't hear anything particularly good on there the couple of times I listened - certainly nothing to compare to R.I.P., Code Red 94 etc.
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Vol 1 is certainly better than Vol 2, but 2 has a few good tracks, like No No No and Here I Come...
 
M

matmustard

theta
padraig (u.s.) said:
yeh but like Droid said those were reggae labels (Jungle Fashion too, well we're at it) cashing in on what for them was a fad tangentially related to their main focus.
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Cashing in no doubt, but, in Greensleeves case at least, there was also a feeling of (lets call it) The Clyde Stubblefield Effect. That is, trying to get overdue payments made to DJs and producers whose work was being sampled in early 90s hardcore & jungle. Like much sampled music, this existed almost exclusively without writer / producer credits. Greensleeves decided that, if junglists were going to make money out of reggae, they in turn would commission remixes from their own catalogue (not forgetting that the label also included a publishing arm).
Remix duties were offered up to some of the top boys, including Tom & Jerry and Rebel MC (Bryan Gee was knocked back for financial reasons) but, as far as I'm concerned, the results were disappointing.
Conversely Jetstar infamously bootlegged the Top Cat-sampling Sweet Vibrations (by DMS & Boneman X) on a white label stamped "Top Cat - Push Up Your Lighter"!
 
D

droid

Guest
matmustard said:
Cashing in no doubt, but, in Greensleeves case at least, there was also a feeling of (lets call it) The Clyde Stubblefield Effect. That is, trying to get overdue payments made to DJs and producers whose work was being sampled in early 90s hardcore & jungle.
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Given the extremely dodgy goings on with Junjo Lawes and the Volcano back catalogue - not to mention the Scientist debacle, Id have to wonder about this... how much did the original artists get out of it?

I would have though that Jungle Fashion held the crown for fairest treatment of reggae artists seeing as most of their stuff had original vocals voiced specifically for jungle - also Subbase via Marvellous Cain's Gun talk LP. The only Greensleeves example of this approach (as Im sure you know) is the Redrose tune - 'Hotter Jungamatical style.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
matmustard said:
That is, trying to get overdue payments made to DJs and producers whose work was being sampled in early 90s hardcore & jungle. Remix duties were offered up to some of the top boys, including Tom & Jerry and Rebel MC (Bryan Gee was knocked back for financial reasons) but, as far as I'm concerned, the results were disappointing. Conversely Jetstar infamously bootlegged the Top Cat-sampling Sweet Vibrations (by DMS & Boneman X) on a white label stamped "Top Cat - Push Up Your Lighter"!
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what Droid said, though also I wasn't trying to criticize that "cashing in" tendency, just delineating between that & ragga jungle that was made to be jungle a la Top Cat, Congo Natty, etc.
 
P

petergunn

plywood violin
rivet90210 said:
Does anyone know about all the jungle records that came out on Ariwa?
I've never heard any of them, but discogs seems to think that they are jungle records. I dont really know the back story with Ariwa but they have the link being discussed in the credits of most releases alone.

http://www.discogs.com/Mazaruni-The-Jungle-Dub-Experience/release/1179217

http://www.discogs.com/Lee-Perry-Super-Ape-Inna-Jungle/release/72187?ev=bp_titl
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i have that "jungle dub experience" one... disappointing... it just doesn't mesh well as a combo of Dub and jungle... the jungle part feels like an afterthought and never really hits hard...
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
rivet90210 said:
Does anyone know about all the jungle records that came out on Ariwa?
I've never heard any of them, but discogs seems to think that they are jungle records. I dont really know the back story with Ariwa but they have the link being discussed in the credits of most releases alone.

http://www.discogs.com/Mazaruni-The-Jungle-Dub-Experience/release/1179217

http://www.discogs.com/Lee-Perry-Super-Ape-Inna-Jungle/release/72187?ev=bp_titl
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I've got this http://www.discogs.com/Rupununi-Safari-Steaming-Jungle-The-Jungle-Dub-Experience-2/release/720242

I don't really think it works that well, but it's an interesting example of crossover with reggae. Ariwa is the label of Mad Professor of course, so foundation UK dub stuff.

Jah Tubbys and I think Conscious Sounds were rumoured to have done jungle tunes as well (and Tubbys did a garage tune as well)
 
M

matmustard

theta
droid said:
Given the extremely dodgy goings on with Junjo Lawes and the Volcano back catalogue - not to mention the Scientist debacle, Id have to wonder about this... how much did the original artists get out of it?

I would have though that Jungle Fashion held the crown for fairest treatment of reggae artists seeing as most of their stuff had original vocals.
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My comments recall the early/mid 90s, pre-VP buy-out and prior to the Junjo and Scientist reissues. I won't claim to be an authority on the Junjo / Linval Thompson / Volcano story but it's well known that Lawes instructed money to be paid directly to the singer/DJ/players rather than going through him. The Greensleeves jungle remixes were exactly that - remixers received a one-off fee and writer/producers were entitled to their usual royalty payments.
As you are aware, reggae runnings are often unbelieveably dodgy, but I believe Greensleeves earned a reputation through fair dealings in the main.

Oh, and with no offence meant to the excellent Dub Vendor boys, I always thought the Jungle Fashion tunes were by and large even worse than Greensleeves attempts!
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
matmustard said:
Oh, and with no offence meant to the excellent Dub Vendor boys, I always thought the Jungle Fashion tunes were by and large even worse than Greensleeves attempts!
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really? I mean if you're talking business-wise then I wouldn't know, but in the sonics...I mean I've never heard any of the Jungle Fashion 12"s but both of the split LPs (one is Top Cat/General Levy, the other is Cutty Ranks/some dude named Poison Chang) are fantastic, particularly the Top Cat stuff, "Roughest Gunark" & that. I mean, I dunno, it's not groundbreaking, just solid ca. '95 ragga jungle.

*EDIT* oh one minus is that they have tunes which are readily available elsewhere ("Limb By Limb", I imagine a lot of the Top Cat tracks)
 
D

droid

Guest
matmustard said:
My comments recall the early/mid 90s, pre-VP buy-out and prior to the Junjo and Scientist reissues. I won't claim to be an authority on the Junjo / Linval Thompson / Volcano story but it's well known that Lawes instructed money to be paid directly to the singer/DJ/players rather than going through him. The Greensleeves jungle remixes were exactly that - remixers received a one-off fee and writer/producers were entitled to their usual royalty payments.
As you are aware, reggae runnings are often unbelieveably dodgy, but I believe Greensleeves earned a reputation through fair dealings in the main.
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I'm not saying Greensleeves weren't relatively less dodgy, but the Junjo example is not a good one. Most of greensleeves claims to his catalogue were based on a contract (which they produced in court a few years back), but, as is well known, Junjo Lawes was illiterate...

Oh, and with no offence meant to the excellent Dub Vendor boys, I always thought the Jungle Fashion tunes were by and large even worse than Greensleeves attempts!
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As Padraig says, Ruffest Gunnark is great - one of the finest ragga jungle tunes ever made IMO. And of course, Fashion also licensed 'Limb by Limb' to subbase and collaborated with the label on various records, which gives them a lot of credit in my book as they actually interacted with the jungle scene...

The compilations were a bit pants though... :D
 
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