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nomadologist
Guest
well this one reminds me of harmonia quite a bit:
fuck buttons
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I've been rude about this lot and perhaps I should like them because for ages I've wanted bands to be a bit more like this, except good. But you know some people have been doing and pushing similar things for years and the follow-fashion people don't really know how to respond while many of them take notes and now it filters through and 'psychedelic' is the thing. Or is that last month, it's 'afro' now. And the same applies there - groups doing that for ages being largely ignored or derided and then some more easily marketable come-lately imitators are hailed as being the freshness. There's nothing wrong with being 'derivative' but this isn't all that good and is so obviously informed by such a narrow set of influences. In some parts of the world we have been over saturated with crappo Casio noise outfits and like straight and fvx say that whole milieu can be annoying to be around.
Anyway carry on, what do I care. It does me no good to hate. Happy happy.
Anyway carry on, what do I care. It does me no good to hate. Happy happy.
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Like Hanadensha who I mentioned earlier who's presentation and music obviously bares no relation.
The comparisons aren't short sighted, they are mostly accurate.
Is correct. If people mention these sources than it's because that's where it comes via. If people have mentioned more 'indie' stuff it's in an attempt to get away from how blindingly obvious and regurgitated the other reference points are.
This is basically about noise dweebs getting over nihilism and edging towards the 'positivity' they previously dismissed as too hippy, because Animal Collective and Load records now say it's OK.
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Maybe what you say is true about UK "noise dweebs" but it doesn't apply to the noise scene in the northeast US. First of all, Animal Collective has virtually zero connection to the nyc/NE US noise scene. AC are perceived as an oddball pitchfork-approved pop band, and their overlap is nonexistent if you're talking about facts on the ground. Their influence on the noise community in the NE US is virtually nil.
Fuck buttons are a very obvious and predictable direction to go in. Not necessarily bad, but notparticularly interesting sonically if you follow these things. At all. It's perfectly understandable to want to add melodies and such, more power to 'em, I like that aspect, at least in theory. But you know, just like other genres, you have to do something interesting with it. Just setting loopy synth textures alongside a few distorted textures and then throwing a distorted vocal or hand percussion in the mix does not an interesting song make. You gotta do something with it. Bazillions of people are doing this kind of thing already, one might add ...
One of the problems I see, having listened to half of the album on headphones, is that formally and timbrally speaking, it's quite boring. Three of the songs that I heard have exactly the same format: intro loops with gentle synth sounds and maybe some abrasion, various new loops emerge with increasing smeared abrasions (almost as if they're just triggering clips in Ableton), and then, in the last fifth of the track, the distorted vocals come in. Once is fine, but beyond that it's schtick, cliche.
Also, the use of delays is quite banal. Waaaaay too obvious and annoying to try to build entire parts of the piecse out of one or two sounds sent through their dl4 or giga delay or whatever lol.
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Yeah you're right, not accurate to name AC in that context.
What I was trying to get at was that it's a shift in what's acceptable / fashionable, and probably one I should welcome in a way. But it's just annoying when I know that so many people who now like this would say three years ago have totally missed the krautrock / psych-informed end of things and been into Wolf Eyes or whatever. Obviously Boredoms are the big avatars of that shift but that all happened over ten years ago.
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I hear what you are saying and agree to a large extent. But a couple of comments:
- The unpleasant feeling wrought by hipster fly-by-night fashion-chasers signing up as fans will always be there, no matter what genre you're talking about, so I try to keep that out of my own judgment (to the degree that it's possible).
- Also, I don't think that a dissensus thread on fuck buttons is really representative of a shift, as I'd guess that most US noisers haven't even heard of them. And in any case, the shift is inevitable, as eventually even noise chains and feedback loops will become boring to the testosterone boys and they'll start looking for new ways to create (e.g., add blissed out synths; prurient already has an element of that, though I'm not really a fan).
- The marketplace for popular music these days is a lot like the cliche about 'nature', i.e., 'it abhors a void.' What I mean is that all possible permutations will probably eventually see the light of day, driven by affordability of technology, democratization of access, and the unavoidable allure of copying something you personally love ... sooo, you want Television + Joy Division + Smiths, voila, you've got the crap that is Interpol. You want garage rock repackaged? Here's White Stripes. You want the UK version of Interpol? Here's the Editors. Lol, etc.
So yeah, for the casio-playing pedal-loop distorted vocal bearded crowd to start adding harmonic textures is pretty much inevitable, and already here (independently of fuck buttons). The key is for thoughtful listeners to tell each other about the bands that are fresh and to call bullshit on the copyist hacks.
As to which camp fuck buttons falls into, I don't have enough information to come to my own conclusion (yet). But first impressions lead me to believe that this very forgettable music - though I do hasten add that it's nice, imho, to see people trying to add memorable harmonic content to a semi-'noise' approach.
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Also, I think a better comparison here may be to WZT Hearts, whom Marc Masters also likes. They're not a duo and not as crude as fuck buttons, but they've got blissful textures, laptops, and a more epic, melodic thing going on (probably harsher moments too). It's still loosely related to noise stuff, I guess (they're from Baltimore), but is trying to do its own thing, or at least appears to have some ambition to reconfigure the usual elements in a fresh way. I bought the record, it's not really my thing (haven't seen 'em live though, to be fair), though I recognize that they are at least trying to do something slightly different.
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nomadologist
Guest
I hear what you are saying and agree to a large extent. But a couple of comments:
- The unpleasant feeling wrought by hipster fly-by-night fashion-chasers signing up as fans will always be there, no matter what genre you're talking about, so I try to keep that out of my own judgment (to the degree that it's possible).
- Also, I don't think that a dissensus thread on fuck buttons is really representative of a shift, as I'd guess that most US noisers haven't even heard of them. And in any case, the shift is inevitable, as eventually even noise chains and feedback loops will become boring to the testosterone boys and they'll start looking for new ways to create (e.g., add blissed out synths; prurient already has an element of that, though I'm not really a fan).
- The marketplace for popular music these days is a lot like the cliche about 'nature', i.e., 'it abhors a void.' What I mean is that all possible permutations will probably eventually see the light of day, driven by affordability of technology, democratization of access, and the unavoidable allure of copying something you personally love ... sooo, you want Television + Joy Division + Smiths, voila, you've got the crap that is Interpol. You want garage rock repackaged? Here's White Stripes. You want the UK version of Interpol? Here's the Editors. Lol, etc.
So yeah, for the casio-playing pedal-loop distorted vocal bearded crowd to start adding harmonic textures is pretty much inevitable, and already here (independently of fuck buttons). The key is for thoughtful listeners to tell each other about the bands that are fresh and to call bullshit on the copyist hacks.
Very good post, agreed on all points.
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nomadologist
Guest
@Noel
I guess the real thing I'm resisting is the idea that Animal Collective are arbiters of anything, let alone the real taste or vibe of the scene in the U.S. at the moment...
I guess the real thing I'm resisting is the idea that Animal Collective are arbiters of anything, let alone the real taste or vibe of the scene in the U.S. at the moment...
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Hmm of course, wise words. And it wouldn't bother me but sometimes that's just such a large proportion of what goes on, here.
Sure but again I'm not talking about this thread so much as what I see around me. This isn't all theoretical.
Yeah, all permutations provided for. The thing about influence though is of course you might love something but you have to assimilate, integrate and do your thing rather than just contrive to bosh a few borrowed elements together and regurgitate.
All true. Like I say, on the face of it I should be pleased and I know I've been a little bit harsh on the old Button Fuckers.So yeah, for the casio-playing pedal-loop distorted vocal bearded crowd to start adding harmonic textures is pretty much inevitable, and already here (independently of fuck buttons). The key is for thoughtful listeners to tell each other about the bands that are fresh and to call bullshit on the copyist hacks.
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noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I didn't mean to imply they are, already said it was inaccurate to name them in that context. But this is a UK band and I was talking about the UK scene as I see and engage with it. I'm talking about people and bands that I know and stuff that I've been involved with. AC got mentioned originally I think because FB do owe something to them in terms of AC being seen as responsible in some way for popularising yelping / floor tom banging / euphoric exuberance and folk / psych aspects combined with electronics, at least for a certain demographic.
It's not that relevant though.
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nomadologist
Guest
gotcha. you seem more into this scene than i am, to be sure, so you probably know more about the reference points that work for British perveyors of noise-psychedelia than i do.
you know what FB reminds me of really? that sort of music that was suddenly called "electro-house" or "electro" anything a few years ago--you know, electronic music that was danceable and somewhat forward-looking suddenly needed an "electro" and/or "house" tag from music critics to legitimize it, even if it sounded nothing like electro or house? except in this case they're making "noise-psych".
you know what FB reminds me of really? that sort of music that was suddenly called "electro-house" or "electro" anything a few years ago--you know, electronic music that was danceable and somewhat forward-looking suddenly needed an "electro" and/or "house" tag from music critics to legitimize it, even if it sounded nothing like electro or house? except in this case they're making "noise-psych".
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Well I'm more on the kraut / psych / freakout / electronic side of things than the noise side I guess, if anything. So this to me looks like the noise scene coming late to what the rest of us have been on And yeah that's it, for the psych to be acceptable it has to have the noise association, that's a bit annoying. And with the dance / techno elements I always hated the useless condescending attitude to integrating that - like there's no real engagement there, just add a shitty kick drum and some gated chords or whatever - not FB but in general. But that's all divisive nonsense and it's good if indie embraces noise and noise embraces dance and so on. Why not. I just want good music. No one's complaining about that guy that sounds like Panda Bear because it sounds really good.
And yeah that's it, for the psych to be acceptable it has to have the noise association, that's a bit annoying. And with the dance / techno elements I always hated the useless condescending attitude to integrating that - like there's no real engagement there, just add a shitty kick drum and some gated chords or whatever - not FB but in general. But that's all divisive nonsense and it's good if indie embraces noise and noise embraces dance and so on. Why not. I just want good music. No one's complaining about that guy that sounds like Panda Bear because it sounds really good.
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nomadologist
Guest
Well I'm more on the kraut / psych / freakout / electronic side of things than the noise side I guess, if anything. So this to me looks like the noise scene coming late to what the rest of us have been on
ah. yes i agree here. i'm more on the kraut/psych/freakout/electronic side, so to me the indie bickering seems weird. too often there's this impulse on the part of critics and fans to give faaarrr to much credit to new indie bands for "pioneering" a "sound" that's been around for decades and has been mined to death, in fact.
fuck buttons isn't my thing, but in terms of bands that are guilty of being overrated, i think they're probably the last on my "noise" list...
i don't understand complaining about a kind of imaginary ' other people ' when discussing music and the idea of noise people not being nihilistic as a bad thing etc, who cares do what you want please,- i don't care about any of that stuff essentially, people can do what they want, i was talking about the album which is great, and mixes stuff together that i really like, in a nice shiny dayglo way. The fuckbuttons sound hasn't been around for a long time too, that's bullshit, things like it have been but not the stuff they make.
Animal collective are in a small way thru paw tracks, a good and hip outlet for some great music, which might reach a wider audience than it might not otherwise, so that's nuffin to sneer at unless your some kind of hipper than thou underground cunt.
puirient is kind of interesting as he seems informed by a real american metal approach to noise, i thought he was good when i saw him live.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
Not imaginary. I'm not going to name names am I.
Not a bad thing. I didn't say that at all.
Well of course but I think sometimes battle lines get drawn up in music. If you are involved in creating and participating in a music scene you can come up against opposing attitudes - it's different to just sitting back and making consumer choices from your pile of free promos.
Fair enough.
Well of course their exact sound has only been around for as long as they've been doing it. But things like this have been, obviously not so visibly.
noel emits
a wonderful wooden reason
I don't think anyone was sneering at Animal Collective. They got mentioned here for other reasons.
But as for HTTUCs, well that's kind of the point you see. Like people who were looking down their noses at cosmic / psych influences 5 years ago for instance and are now all 'Human Is Bird To The Sun' and what have you. So it's pretty funny that you should think that's why I don't particularly like this band.
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sure i've been around music for long enough to understand this, although this is probably the aspect i personally enjoy the least, but the other thing is you can't ever hear all music, most kind of insularity in music i really think is thru lack of experience or awareness more than anything else if you see what i mean, a kind of dishonesty. Alot of ppl making and participating in the kind of black dice/ganggang/animal collective etc stuff seem to be kids who were into hardcore which is a scene i was never into at all.
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