Tipping - what's your take?

[slim jenkins]

Well then, service charge = standardised tip, so you don't have to leave anything extra unless they brought you your food on spinning plates balanced on their chins, or something. In fact if service wasn't up to scratch you're fully within your rights not to pay the service charge, but I guess most people are going to be much too polite and fuss-phobic to do that.

'Standardised tip'...:slanted: Not that it bothers me too much, really. Especially is the service is decent. And the food was good. And we shared the pudding (apple & ginger crumble with cream, actually). I don't think we'd ever refuse to pay the inbuilt tip.

 

[petergunn]

I'd rather tip the guy sweeping the streets at six in the morning in the rain

no one is stopping you from doing so... in NYC it is custom to tip your building's super at christmas for sorting out your garbage all year, tho i think this may be on the wane...

and Mr Tea, please shut it with "i'd rather just pay 20% more". seriously, it is such a smart-assed english university student in america thing to say... there are plenty of things about england i'd like to change... like, i wish when i bought a mixed drink there it had an adult sized pour of spirits in it...

but, the point is the world is the way it is. if you are in a country where tipping is standard (like the US) and someone performs a service especially for you, TIP. and then afterwards write a letter to the Restaurant Owners Association or something about how you'd gladly pay 20% more...

if you are in the US:
if someone brings you a drink, TIP
if someone brings you food, TIP
if someone shines your shoes, TIP
if someone cuts your hair, TIP
if someone fetches you a taxi, TIP
if someone drives you somewhere in a taxi, TIP
if someone carries your luggage for you, TIP
if someone carries your golf bag, TIP
if someone parks your car for you, TIP

basically, if you are asking another human being to perform a task on a one on one basis directly for your benefit, TIP THEM. i mean, we are talking a couple of dollars here...

 

[nomadologist]

do people just not read my posts? I swear I do include actual facts in them.. sheesh... or is it just that I need verification from another source?s

thanks vimothy for restating my first sentences again

I swear to god that I tried to quote your posts and second them in this thread nearly 5 or 6 times, and it looks like my posts never actually made it here. I also pointed out that beyond being sure to pay 20% tips, you should always try to pay a cash tip rather than putting it on your credit card, since tips left on a debit or credit card end up getting taxed. I know what the service industries are like here and I try to avoid making servers pay taxes on tips if possible. Especially now that I'm in an all cash industry I relate.

I swear dissensus *ate* at least 5 of my attempted posts in this thread over the past week.

 

[nomadologist]

no one is stopping you from doing so... in NYC it is custom to tip your building's super at christmas for sorting out your garbage all year, tho i think this may be on the wane...

and Mr Tea, please shut it with "i'd rather just pay 20% more". seriously, it is such a smart-assed english university student in america thing to say... there are plenty of things about england i'd like to change... like, i wish when i bought a mixed drink there it had an adult sized pour of spirits in it...

but, the point is the world is the way it is. if you are in a country where tipping is standard (like the US) and someone performs a service especially for you, TIP. and then afterwards write a letter to the Restaurant Owners Association or something about how you'd gladly pay 20% more...

if you are in the US:
if someone brings you a drink, TIP
if someone brings you food, TIP
if someone shines your shoes, TIP
if someone cuts your hair, TIP
if someone fetches you a taxi, TIP
if someone drives you somewhere in a taxi, TIP
if someone carries your luggage for you, TIP
if someone carries your golf bag, TIP
if someone parks your car for you, TIP

basically, if you are asking another human being to perform a task on a one on one basis directly for your benefit, TIP THEM. i mean, we are talking a couple of dollars here...

If someone brings you from manhattan to brooklyn in a cab between 5PM and 6M on a weekday you should definitely tip at least 20%. thats the changing of the guard for taxi drivers and it's really hard to move Across buroughs

 

[nomadologist]

no one is stopping you from doing so... in NYC it is custom to tip your building's super at christmas for sorting out your garbage all year, tho i think this may be on the wane....

certainly, since i have tested high on standardized tests for years but i still can't figure out nyc's arcane recycling laws i leave it to jose garcia next door who gets extra kickbacks from the ny state gov for sorting our recycling laws and implimenting them.

plus he pretends not to notice what i'm up to and i return the favor.

i want to tip him anonymously but can't think of how to do it tactfully.

tips are key period.

luv
n

 

[Mr. Tea]

and Mr Tea, please shut it with "i'd rather just pay 20% more". seriously, it is such a smart-assed english university student in america thing to say... there are plenty of things about england i'd like to change... like, i wish when i bought a mixed drink there it had an adult sized pour of spirits in it...

Look, I'm not on some kind of one-man mission to abolish the entire concept of tipping, I'm just saying that I don't see any particular advantage in the system that wouldn't be unnecessary if people in service industry jobs were just paid a bit more in a first place. And if you want to bitch about thinks in the UK then feel free, as far I'm aware I never claimed it was an earthly paradise over here!

basically, if you are asking another human being to perform a task on a one on one basis directly for your benefit, TIP THEM.

A task - for which they are paid, right? For which they either receive a salary from an employer or a fee direct from you? It just seems arse-about-face for someone who wants to buy a service to have to make up the shortfall in someone else's wage. If there is some advantage to doing things this way round, I'm all ears.

 

[noel emits]

It seems a weird system to me. Obviously do it if it is the custom where you are, and I can understand showing appreciation for a service performed particularly well. But if I go to a bar or restaurant I'd be perfectly happy to pour my own drinks or fetch my own food from the kitchen. Not my fault most places won't let me. That's like they want a monopoly on carrying stuff. And if you have no money - are you supposed to feel bad for not tipping? Doesn't that penalise the low paid as well?

 

[Gavin]

And if you have no money - are you supposed to feel bad for not tipping?

Probably should cut yr own damn hair then!

Doesn't that penalise the low paid as well?

In America the low paid -- which includes the vast majority of people in the occupations petergunn mentioned -- are penalized at every turn. Very few of these workers have health care, and if they have families they are even more hard up. Even when I'm broke I try to tip well -- solidarity, man! And you'll get the occasional fringe benefit if you're really counting your nickels -- a free drink, discounted food, a genuine thanks.

Some of the worst tippers I know come from the most privileged backgrounds.

 

[noel emits]

Probably should cut yr own damn hair then!

Usually I do, although might need some help with the back. But tipping barbers - that's like a protection racket against looking ricockulous.

In America the low paid -- which includes the vast majority of people in the occupations petergunn mentioned -- are penalized at every turn. Very few of these workers have health care, and if they have families they are even more hard up. Even when I'm broke I try to tip well - solidarity, man! And you'll get the occasional fringe benefit if you're really counting your nickels -- a free drink, discounted food, a genuine thanks.

Some of the worst tippers I know come from the most privileged backgrounds.

It's one of those things that the British often find bemusing about America so I'm not being entirely serious (could you tell?) but I think there are other factors involved. For instance restaurants, bars and cabs tend to be more expensive in the UK I think.

Personally speaking I rarely use any of those services petergunn mentioned anyway - I do prefer to do stuff for myself if I can and find it weird and uncomfortable being waited on. I don't drive a car, don't play golf, don't have shoes that need shining, can fetch my own taxi if I need one, carry my own luggage etc. Hackney cab drivers are payed OK and minicabs ore often stupidly expensive. I do tip, but solidarity, not sure. I think the other thing that seems a bit odd is how if a tip is totally expected that would seem to negate it's value as a gesture of appreciation.

 

[Gavin]

I think the other thing that seems a bit odd is how if a tip is totally expected that would seem to negate it's value as a gesture of appreciation.

You would think that, but then you would be surprised at how many tightwads use poor tipping as an opportunity to get a slightly cheaper meal. Customs are not well ingrained in American life, and people are free to tip as lousily as they like. It's the amount that is in flux, not the gesture itself. Anyone who lives on tips deals with shitty tippers (and all manner of assholes) every day they work.

I knew tipping wasn't really done much in Europe, but I never realized how quaint in seemed!

I once had the manager at an Indian buffet tell me NOT to tip, and actually stood over me while I filled out my bill. I insisted on tipping, though I sheepishly knocked it down to like 12%. Those guys refilled my water with the quickness though.

 

[noel emits]

It's such a minefield. One could cause offense and awkwardness by trying to tip where one shouldn't. That's why I'd prefer it to all be straightforward and out in the open. It's like with haggling in shops / markets - just tell me the sodding price and I'll decide if I want it or not.

By the way my dad worked in restaurants for much of the time while I was growing up so I am well aware of the issues and how important tips are for the staff. It was a big deal.

 

[Jonesy]

But what about the people we DON'T tip? One of the world's shittiest jobs is the potwash. Those poor sods don't even get to interact with anyone. I remember doing it as a teen and almost breaking down when every other bugger had gone home and I was left scrubbing pans with worse-than-useless washing up liquid at gone midnight.

The deal in America sounds like it definitely ISN'T a gesture and is all bout supplementing the wages of waiting staff because their employers are such black-hearted petit bourgeois.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Yeah, I was thinking about the guys in the restaurant you don't see (not least the chef!), but presumably in America they have to be paid at least the minimum wage? I mean, the supposed 'justification' for waiters and bar staff to get less than this is the expectation that they receive tips - which totally invalidates the original point of tipping, i.e. to give someone a little extra ON TOP of their wage, not to SUBSIDISE their wage.

I'm by no means opposed to the whole concept - for one thing, I received a very nice Christmas bonus from the parents of one of the kids I tutor last year, but what really made it nice was the unexpectedness of it. If I'd been expecting a bonus, it would just have made me pissed off at all the other clients who didn't give me anything; furthermore, the people who gave me the bonus would have had to worry about whether they'd insulted me by giving me too little or embarassed me by giving too much - as it was it was just a lovely surprise.

Noel: re. tipping when you shouldn't - I've heard of foriegn visitors leaving a tip in a restaurant in Japan and being chased down the street by the bemused waiter who wanted to give the forgetful gaijin the money they must have left behind by accident! It's considered very insulting to tip in Japan, since it implies the tip-ee doesn't earn enough in the form of his/her regular wage.

 

[Gavin]

Yeah, I was thinking about the guys in the restaurant you don't see (not least the chef!), but presumably in America they have to be paid at least the minimum wage?

Not necessarily -- many of them are illegal immigrants paid under the table.

For exceptional service, simply tip beyond custom/compulsion.

 

[petergunn]

Personally speaking I rarely use any of those services petergunn mentioned anyway - I do prefer to do stuff for myself if I can and find it weird and uncomfortable being waited on. I don't drive a car, don't play golf, don't have shoes that need shining, can fetch my own taxi if I need one, carry my own luggage etc.

which is fine, if you don't ask someone or have someone do a service for you, that's entirely different...

I think the other thing that seems a bit odd is how if a tip is totally expected that would seem to negate it's value as a gesture of appreciation.

no, what gavin says is 100% true... obviously, anyone in the service industry hopes for a generous tip, but really it IS the gesture. there are indeed alot of tightwads out there who won't tip at all. everyone in the service industry hopes for a big tip, but obv. are happy for anything...