outraygeous said:well, i wonder if its ok to mock the poor, if you actually are poor.
i would prolly say im on an even par or wealth/poverty scale as sov, yet i dont choose to look, sound or behave the way she does..
bassnation said:how does she behave exactly? from where i'm standing this is about judging people because they wear certain clothes associated with the underclass.
even if you are from a similar background (i doubt it, somehow, but what do i know) do you really want to be joining in with the people like well-to-do students having ironic chav parties and guffawing at the pikeys and scum?
Wow. Ya think?outraygeous said:but at the end of the day, she looks like someone who dropped outa skool 2 breed.
thats prolly a harsh comment.
outraygeous said:check ukgww for previous behaviour antics and also her face-pic on the nets pretty sweet.
we are from a similar background, yet i dont follow the council estste shepard. im alot older than her so maybe im being unfair. but at the end of the day, she looks like someone who dropped outa skool 2 breed.
thats prolly a harsh comment.
and the ucl party looks joke.. its a shame that the opposite of chav is not so popular.
you know who you are, you converse wearin, mullet sportinh, stripy polo tshirt or tshirt with blazer combo or shall i leave my scarf on indoors type of person.
were all victims of it... wheter your a chav or a 'tarquin' (still lookin for the female equivilent) we can all be slotted into groups.
by the way, her bars are big.. i like the way she spits like shes lived in kingston jamacia for the last 4 years.
mpc said:haha. if you hear wiley saying "shout to neil young".
blissblogger said:bring on the gimmicky tracks, the comedy grime, the Madness-y stuff
humour's always been a big part of the hardcore continuum
FACT: "Bound 4 the Reload," a supposed novelty tune, is a foundational track, as much as "Dilemma"
Um do you know what it's like? Cuz this sounds like it's straight from some broadsheet on "realness" of grime to me. I can see why people in the grime "scene" are annoyed by her success (obv I don't agree with them, I think "Ch Ching" is great and I don't care whether it's just a great grime knock-off or the "real" thing.)jeffthedeaf said:I think why people are most annoyed, which seems to be avoided in this discussion, is that grime is considered by many to be "realer" than any other sound they know. Not to sound patronising but I doubt any of you (bar Logan) actually know what its like to live the life these people do - this is a scene that has emerged out of sheer rebellion, brawling and some of the rawest talent.
Bullshit. This charge of cronyism might MIGHT be valid if she was the best friend of Chris Blackwell's daughter or something, but seriously record companies don't give a shit about presenting grime to the "masses". She recorded a couple of very catchy singles and a record label think she can be sold as pop. That's it. . . she is not part grand record label conspiracy to repress "real" grime or any crap like that (and such a conspiracy may very well exist among the UK media--although perversely it has been helped along by the sheer willfull insularity of the scene.)jeffthedeaf said:Let's face it, her support base is entirely located in boardrooms and not at street level - its the record companies way of presenting grime to the masses.
jeffthedeaf said:I think why people are most annoyed, which seems to be avoided in this discussion, is that grime is considered by many to be "realer" than any other sound they know. Not to sound patronising but I doubt any of you (bar Logan) actually know what its like to live the life these people do - this is a scene that has emerged out of sheer rebellion, brawling and some of the rawest talent. It's one of the most direct forms of music to showcase talent since the emergence of hip hop - here you have an MC whose lyrics you can instantly learn, productions where you can hum the riffs and DJs who you will listen to every time just for the new dubs.
So when a short white "ragga chipmunk" (I believe thats the official title) turns up with some funding and some apparently important friends (what else do you call Radio 1 appearances off the back of nothing?) and gets pushed without any connection to the scene itself, the purists get vexed. Someone questioned her need to work hard to make it as a valid artist - grime is all about working hard, fighting to the top and getting some of the most critical audiences on your side: poor kids who want to put money in your pocket.
Let's face it, her support base is entirely located in boardrooms and not at street level - its the record companies way of presenting grime to the masses. Sharky Major's not signed because he's not even the biggest MC on the underground, and you couldn't market him - so where's the attraction? Sov at least presents a friendlier face for the shook kids watching Base and wanting to see Cassidy/R Kelly/Marques Houston's latest hit.
I'm just trying to present an even argument here - some people have to realise that record companies don't award record contracts for hard work and talent; that goes to people who can sell their records to the target market. So out to the purists, this looks like the first in many Cowell-esque "managed" grime acts, most of whom I'm sure will flop quicker than Clinton's boy after seeing Hilary in naughty underwear. But it will happen, so accept it. Face it, if you were her, you wouldn't turn it down would you?
There's an interesting discussion of this in Sarah Thornton's book Club Cultures. She develops the concept of 'subcultural capital' to describe who achieves authentic 'cool' and how they access that status (eg: pay their dues). She describes how this is founded largely on patterns of consumption and behaviour that are typically more socially and economically available to men (IE: because they can earn more, may have less family responsibility, enjoy greater physical safety, suffer less social scrutiny of their behaviours, etc.).ripley said:But in terms of grime (or elsewhere) However you rate judge or describe someone, when you look at the list you've created is "authentic" or "dues-paying" basically male? if so, why is that?