Paper Route Gangstaz - Fear and Loathing in Hunts Vegas

[jambo]

sorry, btw, I guess I was somewhat rude to you. it just kinda pissed me off, this sweeping dismissal of something's worth. but again, hey, your opinion, fair enough.

No need to apologise I don't think, I was quite erm, emphatic in my dismissal, but I didn't mean to be so without going into why. Well, I didn't intend to get into it at all, that just came out.
It's someone's work and it works for you so it would be somewhat pointless to knock that, but my 'critique' were I to lay it out would go beyond just not liking it.

Obviously the rave thing has been a little misleading. Still, maybe the discussion has somewhere to go.

Dubstep has made links with southern rap no?

 

[mms]

it's true that techno/electro share a lot of roots (I always took house to be more of a disco thing, not discounting the obvious interplay between Chicago & Detroit in the early days) but they've diverged pretty widely from each other since the mid-late 80s, not just in production w/the shift from drum programming to sampling (which, of course, has gone back in the other direction in the last several years) but also culturally. there's undoubtedly crossover, but I think it's limited, and I don't think there's much of a shared audience. how many kids do you think are bumping underground resistance and ugk? I wish there more, but not very many, I think.

well underground resistance had a hip hop offshoot.
http://www.discogs.com/label/Hipnotech
masters at work did this hip hop classic too:
http://www.thewhitenoiserevisited.co.uk/2007/02/full-metal-jacket-kaos-platoon_08.html
sorry just being silly,

but yeah i'm not really talking about authenticity, i don't give a fuck about that obviously, just would think there would be more obvious lineages and avaliability of wax for sampling, there are more simularities with house/techno and it's offspring in all the ghetto house/bass/ecstacy use/hip hop/usig mcing/written by black american people for dancing than some rotten old euro house stuff, but then you know 'look out weekend' by debbie deb and 'clear' by cybotron have all recently (in the last few years been sampled, maybe overall house/techno have a separate linage in that they sample their own genre sounds to a larger extent.

 

[claphands]

i asked some similar questions a while back after some US hipster hiphoppers we had at our club played an absolutely disgusting amount of euro toss

http://dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=6894

I've seen Diplo do sets where he was juggling reasonably obscure world beat tunes (kurudo, latin rap, funk carioca, bhangra) mixed with us dirty club and bass (chicago, detroit, bmore, miami) and sets where he played electro, maybe some techno? and mashups. The former was exciting and fun (except the majority of the Seattle crowd was watching him spin instead of fucking dancing) whereas the later just sounded like Diplo was "playing DJ" and was danceable but way too tame (the Austin crowd was dancing, sort of).

Of the genres they are aping they don't usually have much competition from taste-making local DJs (house and club, excluded - see how much Aaron Lacrate pissed off the original Baltimore scene trying to sell his renamed hipster bmore club), especially when its coming out of Africa and Latin America. So now, it doesn't surprise me that other artists associated with Mad Decent and blog beats trying to appropriate there way into the UK rave scene and eurodance scene and failing because there is such an established scene with Djs, tastemakers and the like.

I don't think that this music out of Huntsville really fits in with that though, if only because these are small time hip hop producers basically crate digging for new sounds to use as samples. They aren't trying to be rave DJs, they are using trance/90s pop/rave sound to sonically complement what is pretty straightforward, pretty enjoyable southern hip hop.

To see the type of shit the Hunstville people are doing sonically (and check out the lo-fi videos):

The whole crew on this one:

Off G-Side's new album:

My favorite song off the G-Side album:

Rollin' with the Robert Miles sample:

edit: I apparently don't know how to embed youtubes, sorry

 

[claphands]

I have no beef with you Jambo

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

No need to apologise I don't think, I was quite erm, emphatic in my dismissal, but I didn't mean to be so without going into why. Well, I didn't intend to get into it at all, that just came out.
It's someone's work and it works for you so it would be somewhat pointless to knock that, but my 'critique' were I to lay it out would go beyond just not liking it.

Obviously the rave thing has been a little misleading. Still, maybe the discussion has somewhere to go.

Dubstep has made links with southern rap no?

I'll concede that the ardkore reference was misleading and probably gratuitous. I was just excited after hearing it, I guess.

anyway, the main point I was trying to raise for discussion was about hip hop producers sampling stuff that people would consider schlock pop or cheesy Eurotrance without any irony. I actually got the idea from this:
http://malteserubble.blogspot.com/2008/08/irony-is-for-bitches-im-down-for-byrony.html
but the Paper Route Gangstaz tape is like waay over the tape with it. the recent Diplo connection definitely muddies the irony/novelty waters but it's more in the way the samples are used anyway IMO.

the Crime Mob song is a perfect example. you may or not know that "What Is Love" (which I quite like, cheese & all) was turned into a one note joke in the US by a shite SNL skit (later made into a predictably shite movie) w/Will Ferrell and some other dude as obnoxious brothers in the mid 90s NYC club scene but as the post I linked to contends, Crime Mob totally ignores the all cheese/irony potential and plays it straight as a serious discourse on love/relationships & the like. Plus, of course Dipset, the OGs of this ish and I guess stuff like Jay-Z's Coldplay fandom.

oh, and this video;
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check out Phil's screwface!!!

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

well underground resistance had a hip hop offshoot.
http://www.discogs.com/label/Hipnotech
masters at work did this hip hop classic too:
http://www.thewhitenoiserevisited.co.uk/2007/02/full-metal-jacket-kaos-platoon_08.html
sorry just being silly,

but yeah i'm not really talking about authenticity, i don't give a fuck about that obviously, just would think there would be more obvious lineages and avaliability of wax for sampling, there are more simularities with house/techno and it's offspring in all the ghetto house/bass/ecstacy use/hip hop/usig mcing/written by black american people for dancing than some rotten old euro house stuff, but then you know 'look out weekend' by debbie deb and 'clear' by cybotron have all recently (in the last few years been sampled, maybe overall house/techno have a separate linage in that they sample their own genre sounds to a larger extent.

yeah I was going to mention MAW as one of the hip hop/dance music crossover points (Armand Van Helden too). The UR thing too - didn't Jeff Mills also do some hip hop stuff very early on? - and that one song on the Riot EP that has kindof rapping on it. and dudes like DJ Spinna, Zion I from Oakland did some D/hip hop type stuff, etc. like I said I'd never deny there's some crossover, just not a ton.

hip hop also tends to sample itself quite a bit, especially using snatches of KRS-One or Nas or whoever for choruses, as well as people flipping the same samples in different (or not not so different) ways.

what it really comes down to is that there's just a massive divide between hip hop and electronic dance music (aside from electronic-ish modern r&b). I have my own theories about why electronic music never really became popular here (one big thing, I think, is the massive backlash after disco - Americans, generally more homophobic than Europeans, have never really gotten over the idea that everyone was dancing to "fag" music for a hot minute there) but whatever the reasons are it just never happened. so most kids in the States, regardless of ethnicity really, just don't know anything about house or techno or jungle. I didn't mean to imply that it's because the PRGz are black - there just isn't a popular dance music culture at all.

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

I don't think that this music out of Huntsville really fits in with that though, if only because these are small time hip hop producers basically crate digging for new sounds to use as samples. They aren't trying to be rave DJs, they are using trance/90s pop/rave sound to sonically complement what is pretty straightforward, pretty enjoyable southern hip hop.

that pretty much nails it on the head.

 

[mms]

yeah I was going to mention MAW as one of the hip hop/dance music crossover points (Armand Van Helden too). The UR thing too - didn't Jeff Mills also do some hip hop stuff very early on? - and that one song on the Riot EP that has kindof rapping on it. and dudes like DJ Spinna, Zion I from Oakland did some D/hip hop type stuff, etc. like I said I'd never deny there's some crossover, just not a ton.

hip hop also tends to sample itself quite a bit, especially using snatches of KRS-One or Nas or whoever for choruses, as well as people flipping the same samples in different (or not not so different) ways.

what it really comes down to is that there's just a massive divide between hip hop and electronic dance music (aside from electronic-ish modern r&b). I have my own theories about why electronic music never really became popular here (one big thing, I think, is the massive backlash after disco - Americans, generally more homophobic than Europeans, have never really gotten over the idea that everyone was dancing to "fag" music for a hot minute there) but whatever the reasons are it just never happened. so most kids in the States, regardless of ethnicity really, just don't know anything about house or techno or jungle. I didn't mean to imply that it's because the PRGz are black - there just isn't a popular dance music culture at all.

well you've got all 'ghetto' versions of house, techno, electro etc, which are fast with highly sexualised rapping, that have alot of scratch hip hop culture in them too.

 

[claphands]

insight into how block beataz chose their samples?

http://blog.fairtilizer.com/rap-hip-hop/playlist-and-interview-block-beattaz/

breaking bread with us in the middle of the recession cause shit is hard out here, especially here.

You flipped crazy samples on numerous occasions, like on Rollin’ or Wood Grain, are you doing this on purpose to make people go “oh shit they sampled that?!?!” or it just happens?

Mali Boi:
Make them go oh shit!…I seen the Rollin sample on tv.

CP:
Me and Mali don’t even listen to rap honestly. We still hip hop at the core, so we still dig in the crates, digitally. Mali be into to that crazy shit anyway, so once he start noddin his head I know something finna get jacked and its gone be hard…straight to the computer and then straight to reason 4.0.

 

[DJ PIMP]

"I know something finna get jacked and its gone be hard…straight to the computer and then straight to reason 4.0."

i love this... the incongruity between street and computers and reason four point oh.