Can the capacity for revulsion be mapped against politics?

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
You can read this alongside the article Mr Tea posted in the goth thread for an interesting counter-factual -- the fascist industrialists all think of themselves as animal spirits, uber-materialists in fact, and not cleanliness obssessed tories.

Fair enough, but I think there's a big difference between somewhat stuffy Tory-voting little-Englanders and yer fully paid-up, gas-chambers-n-glory card-carying Fascist, right? I mean, a difference in kind, I'm not sure it's even a case of progression along a continuum.
 

sufi

lala
something nomad mentioned somewhere was thought-provoking along these lines;
escalating the amount of violence in the media prepares people's brains for wars...

her e.g. was 'dexter' & clearly a LOT of TV/film fetishes violence & death, but you can also see it in the obsessive reporting of especially gruesome or bizarre deaths across the 'factual' news

... interesting to map this ramping up of anti-life themes in the media in relation to state-sponsored violent conflict ...
 

vimothy

yurp
Fair enough, but I think there's a big difference between somewhat stuffy Tory-voting little-Englanders and yer fully paid-up, gas-chambers-n-glory card-carying Fascist, right? I mean, a difference in kind, I'm not sure it's even a case of progression along a continuum.

Agreed. I'm not sure that it is a continuum. But in any case, the 'real' fascists in your article are not obssessed with cleanliness -- in fact they are not a million miles away from your average punk/metalhead/anarchist/and yes even hippy. Not politically, at least, not ostensibly, but similar in lots of other ways.

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "right wing".
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
OK, fair enough - a hatred of all things 'sordid' and 'unclean', then? Yeah, certainly sounds more at home on the right, traditionally speaking anyway. An interesting modern development though is 'orthorexia', a disorder characterised by an obsession with eating 'pure' foods that's sort of a logical conclusion of vegetarianism/veganism, the organic foods thing, anti-lactose/ant-wheat/anti-(you name it) faddism and so on.

Oh this one just makes me laugh. And orthorexics are always so evangelistic, too! Silly them.

Have you ever seen an organic farm? Where I grew up (where I am right now) is basically farm country (full of Amish, too). Anyone who thinks an organic farmer is going to abstain from shooting his cattle/cows with antibiotics if they get sick is nuts. There would be no organic farm that wasn't out of business if they didn't. One of my relatives has a farm and lost 3 cows to sickness within 24 hours before he could go get some antibiotics for them.

Also, hate to break it to people, but pesticides are in the ground water. Organic vegetables and produce are not pesticide free, no matter how much you pay for them, if they were grown in the same soil as everything else is and not in some sort of greenhouse with specially manufactured non-soil.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Fair enough, but I think there's a big difference between somewhat stuffy Tory-voting little-Englanders and yer fully paid-up, gas-chambers-n-glory card-carying Fascist, right? I mean, a difference in kind, I'm not sure it's even a case of progression along a continuum.

It's a spectrum disorder, like autism.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
It's physical revulsion, squeamishness rather than intellectual/political/considered revulsion.

I do think you're right.

Like it seems a lot of the far right gay haters are really stuck at that pre-adolescent level where sexuality is still kind of mysterious and in some ways (esp depending upon how you were raised and probably how CHRISTIAN you are) scary. I remember seeing this book once at Sam's Club (weirdly enough, since the Waltons are usually all over "family values") that was called The Joys of Gay Sex. I was probably 11 and I remember the picture of two guys having some kind of standing up sex (?) on the cover kind of disturbed me. But then, so did the first heterosexual porn images I ever saw, much much more than the gay sex picture actually.

There's probably also an element of biterness--i.e., gay culture has always been associated with bohemian culture in the U.S., and insofar as it was marginalized in this way, the right seemed to have no problem with it. But as soon as you had gay couples who wanted to get married and adopt, you got a much louder outcry from the far right. It's as if they're livid that the urban sophisticates are trying to take over the right's self-proclaimed monoply on "family values" or family living.

It really does seem like envy. Urban DINKs easily make 5-10 times, if not more, than what your average far righter makes per year, they have glamorous jobs, they travel, they're now considered "cool" in the media. It's almost like the far right are saying, why do you have to take crying babies and diaper changing and PTA meetings and soccer games away from us! You already have everything else.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I've also asked far right gay haters before, what is it about gay sex that is especially disturbing to you?

The answer, of course, is always that it's "unnatural" to have anal sex. At that point I always have to point out to them that anal sex is not practiced/enjoyed only by gays, but it's very common among straight people as well. So if you're going to line people up against the wall for that sin against nature, you're going to have to put quite a few straights up there too. To anyone else, I'd also point out that all sorts of species practice homosexuality and anal sex, but if you're Christian, you don't believe humans are a species of animal, so it's not worth mentioning to them.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
something nomad mentioned somewhere was thought-provoking along these lines;
escalating the amount of violence in the media prepares people's brains for wars...

her e.g. was 'dexter' & clearly a LOT of TV/film fetishes violence & death, but you can also see it in the obsessive reporting of especially gruesome or bizarre deaths across the 'factual' news

... interesting to map this ramping up of anti-life themes in the media in relation to state-sponsored violent conflict ...

Yeah, those pro-lifers really know how to cling to the sanctity of life against all else.
 

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
you don't want people ramming it down your throat? ;)

I love this one, too--when people claim "I'm open minded, I don't care if people are gay, I just hate when people ram it down my throat by acting supergay all the time"...

I have to wonder how a man who acts "effeminate" (whatever that means) is ramming anything down your throat, no matter how much you must deep down be intrigued by--I mean HATE--that idea.

It's funny to me because I'm not "straight" in a literal sense and sometimes I get really fucking sick of having images of straightness, straight sex, and the straight male focus (lots of nude women acting bimbo-y and deferential to males, of course) of advertising and TV forced on me constantly.

The average straight person might see 1 "supergay" acting male or female image for every 1 million images of straight sexuality in the mainstream media, while the average queer person sees about 1 million images of straight sex for every 0 image of queer sexuality. (Yes, I just did a study).

Poor straights.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I love this one, too--when people claim "I'm open minded, I don't care if people are gay, I just hate when people ram it down my throat by acting supergay all the time"...

On the other hand there are a (minority of) gay men who are so obsessed with the idea of being gay that they base their entire personality around it, to the point of only ever drinking in gay bars, only ever going to gay clubs, having virtually no friends who aren't also gay men - guys for whom it's an entire ethos and lifestyle rather than a sexual orientation. But then I guess it's no weirder than blokes who are 'so straight' they have no interests outside football, lager and cars or women who think shoes are the most important thing in the world.
 
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nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
On the other hand there are a (minority of) gay men who are so obsessed with the idea of being gay that they based their entire personality around it, to the point of only ever drinking in gay bars, only ever going to gay clubs, having virtually no friends who aren't also gay men - guys for whom it's an entire ethos and lifestyle rather than a sexual orientation. But then I guess it's no weirder than blokes who are 'so straight' they have no interests outside football, lager and cars or women who think shoes are the most important thing in the world.

Right.

And why wouldn't many gay men feel very uncomfortable, and even afraid for their personal safety, in sports bars or "straight bars" when you have cases like the Matthew Sheppard case in the U.S. where two straight men in a sports bar posed as gays in order to lure a lone gay man into their truck, rob him, then brutally beat him to death and leave him to die in a deserted field?

Things like this are not isolated incidents, at least in the US. Non-fatal gay bashing happens all the time, and is rarely reported, unfortunately, because the attitude of law enforcement is often that "they should've stayed at a gay bar if they didn't want to provoke an attack" (which is reminiscent of the "she shouldn't have been out drinking" line that keeps rapists and other sexually violent criminals from being prosecuted).
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah, I accept there must still be a risk of that in some shitty backwards redneck town, but I seriously doubt there are very many pubs like that in (say) London, in 2009.
 
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