Acid Westerns

[STN]

Hmmm, how hard can you slap?

I've never actually seen Deadlock - I believe it's fairly hard to get hold of?

 

[Buick6]

PAT GARRET & BILLY THE KID ! - Sublime soundtrack

KEOMA !! - hilarious soundtrack!

CUT THROATS 9!!

McCABE & MRS MILLER!

THE GREAT SILENCE!!!!!!! - awesome soundtrack!!!

 

[IdleRich]

I've never actually seen Deadlock - I believe it's fairly hard to get hold of?

Just bought a copy off ebay for $10. You can borrow it if you like when I've watched it - assuming it turns up of course.

"PAT GARRET & BILLY THE KID ! - Sublime soundtrack
KEOMA !! - hilarious soundtrack!
CUT THROATS 9!!
McCABE & MRS MILLER!
THE GREAT SILENCE!!!!!!! - awesome soundtrack!!!"

Keoma eh? Never heard of that, tell me more.
Anyone seen a Brazilian film called Deus e o Diabo na Terro dol Sol (sometimes translated as White Devil Black Devil although that doesn't look very literal to me)?

 

[STN]

Oh yeah, i'd love to borrow that, cheers.

My mate has a poster for an Italian film (I think) which translates as 'God Forgives, I Don't' which is a rad title. Anyone seen it? Face-slapping offer for previous mentions now rescinded.

 

[IdleRich]

Must be this I guess - Dio Perdona.... lo no!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061576/

Sounds pretty good.

Oh yeah, i'd love to borrow that, cheers.

Okey-doke, I'll let you know when I have it.

 

[Tentative Andy]

The Last Picture show isn't a western or acid. I reckon you mean The Last Movie actually, the Dennis Hopper thing. I've never seen it either unfortunately.

Yes it was the Hopper thing I had in mind. Just wanted to join in with all the fun really.

 

[IdleRich]

"Yes it was the Hopper thing I had in mind. Just wanted to join in with all the fun really."

Ah well, I'd really like to see that film. I mean, I'm sure it's bollocks but if anyone has a copy I'd be eternally grateful and I'll send you something nice....

Reminds me, That Trail of The Spider thing that I got off John Eden is a kind of acid western.

 

[Tentative Andy]

I'd like to see it too. Apparently it has been reappraised somewhat in recent years, but it does still seem like one of the ultimate exercises in drug-overload self-indulgence. I love the statistic that's floated about that it's something like 1 hour + in before you even get the opening credits.

 

[nochexxx]

As I understand it the first acid western is generally considered to be The Shooting directed by Monte Hellman and staring Warren Oates and Jack Nicholson (did I mention I like this film?). Not as weird or hallucinatory as all that but the mysterious plot leaving so many unexplained questions combined with the fact that you don't really know who anyone is or what they want leaves viewing this as a thoroughly odd experience.

LOOK AWAY SPOILER ALERT!

what a film!

i was somewhat flummoxed by the end though as warren oats was again wearing different clothes in the same scene (reminded me of two lane blacktop). took me a while to realise he was playing his twin.

i can't decide if hellman purposely cast twin brothers during the dying seconds of the movie to fuck with our minds, or whether it just hadn't been thought through properly? in which case it could be misconstrued as poor screenplay? whatever the reason i loved it.

where next idle rich? django kill? !!

 

[IdleRich]

"what a film!"

Glad you liked it - it seems we have very similar taste.

"i was somewhat flummoxed by the end though as warren oats was again wearing different clothes in the same scene (reminded me of two lane blacktop). took me a while to realise he was playing his twin.
i can't decide if hellman purposely cast twin brothers during the dying seconds of the movie to fuck with our minds, or whether it just hadn't been thought through properly? in which case it could be misconstrued as poor screenplay? whatever the reason i loved it."

Well I thought that there was a certain inevitability to it turning out that the person they were chasing was his disappeared brother (if I'm remembering correctly - I need to see it again to be honest). But it left so much unanswered; why were they chasing him?, what's that stuff about a "little person"?, what actually happened in the incident that gave the film its title? I was thinking about it for ages afterwards for sure.

"where next idle rich? django kill? !!"

Hmm, not sure. I like Django Kill but it's not the same type of film at all. It's weird but in a very different kind of way. I'd love to see more things like The Shooting although it's quite tricky to find films like that because it's very hard to put your finger on what it is that makes it unusual. Did you check out The Passenger? My friend has loaned me another Monte Hellman film called Backdoor To Hell and I'll report back when I've seen it - apparently it's not the same kind of thing but it has some Hellmanesque touches so we'll see.

 

[nochexxx]

Glad you liked it - it seems we have very similar taste.

i'm pretty amazed tbh, as i'm really REALLY fussy.

those three hellman recommendations really have bee top draw! can't thank you enough. you can go through your whole life and not see/find films like these.

i'm a late starter when it comes to film (never had a vhs player until much later in life) so have missed out on a lot, so any schooling is gratefully appreciated. and tbh i've always had trouble with film/tv, cause it's so hard to come by the good stuff.

Well I thought that there was a certain inevitability to it turning out that the person they were chasing was his disappeared brother (if I'm remembering correctly - I need to see it again to be honest).

for sure, it's just the quick camera shot of two different warren's in quick succession that fried my head.

But it left so much unanswered; why were they chasing him?, what's that stuff about a "little person"?, what actually happened in the incident that gave the film its title? I was thinking about it for ages afterwards for sure.

i don't recall the 'little person', i must rewatch it again another time when i've completely forgotten it. the dialogue and accents were at times hard to follow.

Did you check out The Passenger? My friend has loaned me another Monte Hellman film called Backdoor To Hell and I'll report back when I've seen it - apparently it's not the same kind of thing but it has some Hellmanesque touches so we'll see.

the passenger next then! i'm on it.

this box set looks like great value. contains three hellman films.

 

[IdleRich]

"i'm pretty amazed tbh, as i'm really REALLY fussy.
those three hellman recommendations really have bee top draw! can't thank you enough. you can go through your whole life and not see/find films like these.
i'm a late starter when it comes to film (never had a vhs player until much later in life) so have missed out on a lot, so any schooling is gratefully appreciated. and tbh i've always had trouble with film/tv, cause it's so hard to come by the good stuff."

Cool - thank the guy who recommended them to me. I'm hardly an expert on film although become a bit obsessed with it the last year or so - very much still learning though.

"for sure, it's just the quick camera shot of two different warren's in quick succession that fried my head."

Yeah, the ending (despite what I said earlier) is somehow very sudden and unexpected. In fact, it's not clear exactly what happens is it?

"this box set looks like great value. contains three hellman films."

That Flight to Fury looks interesting. I like the way the review is all cagey, saying "an ulterior motive" and "dangerous web of deceit" all the way through and then just gives it away at the end by asking who will get the diamonds.

"Joe Gaines (Dewey Martin), becomes entangled in a dangerous web of deceit when a satchel of jewels enters his life. After meeting the outgoing Jay Wickham (Nicholson) in a casino, Joe beds a beautiful woman, only to find her murdered when he gets out of the shower. Jumping aboard a small plane headed for the Phillipines, Joe is shocked to discover that Wickham has tracked him down. Another passenger, Lorgren (Vic Diaz), and his gorgeous girlfriend, Destiny Cooper (Fay Spain), appear to have ulterior motives for getting close to Joe. When the airplane crashes in the jungle, leaving only a few survivors, everyone's true colours shine through. A battle ensues, leading to a final duel between Joe and Wickham, deciding once and for all who - if anyone - will keep the diamonds for themselves..."

The Wild Ride (also in the set) is a really early Jack Nicholson (think it's black and white), I quite enjoyed it but it's more of a curio than anything else, Ride The Whirlwind, like I said somewhere else, is a solid western but it's not got the feel of The Shooting or Two Lane Cockfighter.

"i don't recall the 'little person', i must rewatch it again another time when i've completely forgotten it. the dialogue and accents were at times hard to follow."

I can't recall the specifics but this is what it says on wikipedia.

"Willet Gashade (Oates), a former bounty hunter, returns to his small mining camp after a lengthy absence and finds his slow-witted friend Coley (Will Hutchins) in a state of fear. Coley explains to Gashade that their partner, Leland Drum (B. J. Merholz), had been shot to death two days before by an unseen assassin. The killing was possibly committed in revenge for the accidental trampling death of “a little person” in town, which may have been caused by Gashade’s brother, Coin. Coin had inexplicably rushed away from their camp moments before the shooting death. Gashade and Coley become increasingly paranoid, and Gashade takes his friend’s gun away from him."

I think that you can basically construct a story of what happens in the film from all the maybes. It could be as simple and prosaic as: Oates' brother and his friend go to town and (accidentally) kill a child, a friend or relative (the woman) comes for revenge and shoots one of them with the other running away so she then pays Oates to follow him with some backup from the bounty hunter. They then catch up with him and have a shoot out.
Of course this doesn't explain many things - amongst the most obvious of them, why does the woman shoot her horse at the start? Also why does everyone refer to a little person rather than a child?

 

[IdleRich]

Also, my friend said something about how the most important line is the bit when she says something like "There is no point to it". It's a film about nothing though perhaps not so much so as Two Lane Blacktop.
Alternatively, a quick google says that Monte Hellman said it was about the Kennedy assassination but I can't see much beyond the loosest connection.

 

[nochexxx]

I think that you can basically construct a story of what happens in the film from all the maybes. It could be as simple and prosaic as: Oates' brother and his friend go to town and (accidentally) kill a child, a friend or relative (the woman) comes for revenge and shoots one of them with the other running away so she then pays Oates to follow him with some backup from the bounty hunter. They then catch up with him and have a shoot out.

yeah it did dawn upon me that whoever died in town was somehow related to the woman. i thought one of the clues was outed during the scene whereby gashade digs a grave for coley and the woman for the first time is clearly distraught.

 

[nochexxx]

Of course this doesn't explain many things - amongst the most obvious of them, why does the woman shoot her horse at the start? Also why does everyone refer to a little person rather than a child?

i'd like to think this a sub-plot about an alien found after a crash landing.

thinking about it that woman could have been an alien!

 

[nochexxx]

why does the woman shoot her horse at the start?

forgot about that bit, yeah fuck knows. we need to get that hellman book.

i still want to know about all those cashmere sweater scenes.

 

[nochexxx]

Essentially, the experience of filmmaking for me is one of constant discovery. If I know too much in advance I just tend to become disinterested sooner. The ideal situation for me is working on a film like THE SHOOTING or even TWO LANE BLACKTOP where there are so many unconscious things happening in the creation of it that even after finishing the editing and mixing, and the making of the final print, I can go to see the film and still find new things in it. That to me is a stimulating experience.

great hellman interview here.

 

[IdleRich]

"yeah it did dawn upon me that whoever died in town was somehow related to the woman. i thought one of the clues was outed during the scene whereby gashade digs a grave for coley and the woman for the first time is clearly distraught."

Well that's certainly the obvious interpretation but part of what I love about the film is the way that you really can't say anything with any certainty. Almost everything is up for grabs.
Another thing, I love the way that the scenes in the desert convey this feeling of their having been travelling for ages despite the fact that the film is relatively short and these scenes are only a small part of it.

 

[IdleRich]

"great hellman interview here."

Nice one. Kind of glad it concentrates more on the process of making the films and their general feel without really explaining them too much. I don't think I want that.

 

[nochexxx]

Nice one. Kind of glad it concentrates more on the process of making the films and their general feel without really explaining them too much. I don't think I want that.

it sounds as if hellman is a true situationist, which makes him proper in my book.