oasis split thank fuck for that
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- #covidisairborne benita bunter biblical blue moons blues moonies booze industrial complex psyop citeh cmon you know franny lee haircut hoddle and flow i live my life in the city irish excellence is it my imagination is it worth the aggravation live at knobworth no way sis our kid prole fodder pure rock 'n' roll something to tell the kids souichiro honda status qool status qwoo staus quo 2.0 weir do whatever wray to the motherfuckin neph
version
Well-known member
It's the personalities of the two brothers that drive a lot of the extreme negative reactions. If they hadn't spent decades going on about The Beatles, calling themselves "rock 'n' roll stars" and all the rest of it then there wouldn't be the same intensity to the response.
See also cheap racism and homophobia as well oh fuck off you cunts
subvert47
I don't fight, I run away
Thinking about Neil in this context is reminding me of when Bob Crow died and BJ was still PMwhich I'd already put up three posts above yours
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I obviously got into them too young to understand the cultural context, perhaps if I'd been older I'd have been more inclined towards Neil kulkarni's view of things, esp. if I was getting shouted at and/or attacked by their lumpen hordes of orcish fans.
I suppose they embody a pretty schoolboy/adolescent mentality so hearing them when you're 10 years old you're not going to have an issue.
Although ofc I've loved the music of umpteen homophobic sexist and even occasionally murdering rappers since. probably Kulkarni would have forgiven at least some of those rappers for their (admittedly much) more exciting music. (Although he did seem to mainly be into slightly/very rubbish UK hip hop so who knows.)
Or (definitely) maybe it's their lionisation that really drove him up the wall.
I suppose they embody a pretty schoolboy/adolescent mentality so hearing them when you're 10 years old you're not going to have an issue.
Although ofc I've loved the music of umpteen homophobic sexist and even occasionally murdering rappers since. probably Kulkarni would have forgiven at least some of those rappers for their (admittedly much) more exciting music. (Although he did seem to mainly be into slightly/very rubbish UK hip hop so who knows.)
Or (definitely) maybe it's their lionisation that really drove him up the wall.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
It is quite amazing to think that they were contemporaneous with jungle music. I guess the 90s was characterised by this one steps forward two steps back sort of dynamic?
And I definitely see how that persisted in the 00s, when grime etc was so future orientated and then you had the NME sponsored "new rock revolution" of 70s tribute acts
And I definitely see how that persisted in the 00s, when grime etc was so future orientated and then you had the NME sponsored "new rock revolution" of 70s tribute acts
rock and roll was never the imperial juggernaut people tricked themselves into believing in. In a way I have (an admittedly perverse) sympathy for ultra stalinists like hoxha for banning western music. Not because I support instituting that policy (of course I don't) but it puts the question: culture of whom and for whom?
version
Well-known member
Yeah, that argument falls apart if you pick and choose when those things are a deal breaker based on whether or not you like the artist. You're just grabbing for the political to add weight to an aesthetic disagreement if you aren't consistent with it.
It's also a myth that rock music is masculine in some respects. Soul and reggae have much more adult masculinity to to them. As does jazz. So actually in that sense it's no surprise that bourgeois feminists invented riot grrrl because like their masculine rock antagonists they want to remain teenagers. I think Freud would have seen rock music as pathological. Reich definitely would have seen it as fascistic.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I don't think oasis said anything racist in the press (i've not seen anything anyway) I think the assumption was they were racist cos they hated electronic/rap music
I'm sure they must have said a lot of homophobic stuff along the lines of 'X is for poofs'
The funny thing is I was so young that I was reading about them via Smash Hits, so all I remember is them talking about being thrown off ferries for being drunk and disorderly (which seemed very naughty and cool to this 10 year old suburban stripling, but ofc was probably a sordid nightmare for anyone else on that ferry)
I'm sure they must have said a lot of homophobic stuff along the lines of 'X is for poofs'
The funny thing is I was so young that I was reading about them via Smash Hits, so all I remember is them talking about being thrown off ferries for being drunk and disorderly (which seemed very naughty and cool to this 10 year old suburban stripling, but ofc was probably a sordid nightmare for anyone else on that ferry)
hip hop of course occupies an interesting lane here. the culture wars I believe are between the conceptions of masculinity. It's not surprising that white critics and fans who have been socialised to valourising unending adolescence gravitate to the most thuggish rap. which again is not a moral judgment, black people clearly like that music as well, but in the white psyche it is seen as a vanguard, as the *authentic* tradition. When in general black critics tend to have a much more historically grounded critique. Kinda my ambivalence with ragga jungle appropriations in the U.S @dilbert1 that it was vicarious thrill of black working class life without having to actually confront black people in daily existence.
Corpsey
bandz ahoy
I quite like the idea of Oasis being fascist, there's that mixture of sentimentality, sexlessness, swagger, aggression and the vague sense of a communal uplift...
I'll get in trouble now for saying this cos I know many of you are footie supporters but it's definitely football music in my mind. Specifically football crowds all having a sing-song. It's about being an individual, an egotistical individual, but also about belonging to a big crowd of similar individuals, "WE're going to live forever".
I'll get in trouble now for saying this cos I know many of you are footie supporters but it's definitely football music in my mind. Specifically football crowds all having a sing-song. It's about being an individual, an egotistical individual, but also about belonging to a big crowd of similar individuals, "WE're going to live forever".
version
Well-known member
"We must die as egos and be born
again in the swarm, not separate
and self-hypnotized, but individual
and related."
—Henry Miller, Sexus
I think the last time I listened to trap and drill uninterruptedly was in late 2022, maybe early 2023. It's teenagers music, I don't look down on it obviously, I still love it but how much of it can you really seriously consume in your 30s? there is nothing wrong and in fact it is admirable to graduate to more refined aesthetic modes, provided you are not one sided about this and don't disavow your antecedents
chava
Well-known member
Footie music you say? The only ones that can do footbal music are the dutch