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outraygeous
25-03-2010, 12:41 PM
I was at my moms, looking at 3000 garage 12's thinking if I could fit them in my new flat and then finding most of the new music I could get in FLAC

It also died when I played a ten year old garage track which I played a lot on pirate and now it sounds CRAP

I am now waiting for my CDs to decay

Bang Diddley
25-03-2010, 12:58 PM
I stopped buying vinyl in 1994ish and went to CD.

So my music collection is probably 90% CD, most of which I have converted to mp3 and now thinking I need to do it to FLAC which I simply don't have the time for.

CD decay is a big fear of mine. I really must dig out some of the early CDs I have and see if they work.

But then I guess I could put out a 'clicks and cuts' version of Black Secret Technology with no work whatsoever : )

massrock
25-03-2010, 01:09 PM
Moving about has made holding on to lots of vinyl tricky.

And frankly I quite like digital convenience, as long as it sounds OK. Still hang on to the idea of physical media though. Only recently have I considered buying mp3s/FLACs of stuff I could get on CD.

Have seen a few PDO CDs go brown and/or stop playing. Others seem OK so far.

Funny isn't it, how difficult it actually is to ensure reliable long term storage of digital information. Vinyl on the other hand has a very long lifespan and great signal resiliency.

Blackdown
25-03-2010, 01:10 PM
vinyl does seem like a dying art but in 2010 it's also a stamp of quality. digital-only labels scream of lack of quality control, releasing disposable music.

tom lea
25-03-2010, 01:11 PM
just spent like 60 quid on discogs on vinyl just now, and spent 50 quids worth of credit at a shop on the stuff the other day. i dj off cds when i play clubs tho. i'm gonna try to slowly digitize my collection (or at least the stuff i want to play out). i'm better at playing off cds, and it's less to lug around.

tom lea
25-03-2010, 01:12 PM
vinyl does seem like a dying art but in 2010 it's also a stamp of quality. digital-only labels scream of lack of quality control, releasing disposable music.
there are some good digital labels, but generally you're right. it's less of a commitment. i'm suspicious of them.

Bang Diddley
25-03-2010, 01:21 PM
Moving about has made holding on to lots of vinyl tricky.

And frankly I quite like digital convenience, as long as it sounds OK. Still hang on to the idea of physical media though. Only recently have I considered buying mp3s/FLACs of stuff I could get on CD.

Have seen a few PDO CDs go brown and/or stop playing. Others seem OK so far.

Funny isn't it, how difficult it actually is to ensure reliable long term storage of digital information. Vinyl on the other hand has a very long lifespan and great signal resiliency.

What's a PDO CD ?

Yes, back up, back up back up ..

4linehaiku
25-03-2010, 01:21 PM
Still buy lots of vinyl. Slightly selfish possibly, but I can't really bring myself to buy CDs or MP3s, it seems so pointless. I'd rather spend money on one 12" than 6 MP3s.

Edit: Going to move house in a few months though, we'll see if I change my tune then.

massrock
25-03-2010, 01:22 PM
What's a PDO CD ?
http://members.cox.net/surround/uhjdisc/bronze.htm

The offer to replace CDs is no longer open btw.

Most of Warp Records' CDs from around that time were made by PDO, for instance.

rwtt
25-03-2010, 01:25 PM
vinyl isn't dead to me, although most of what i buy is dubstep and related stuff. any digital tracks i buy end up getting a few plays on my iPod and then being forgotten about - there's nothing more motivating than a stack of vinyl in the corner of the room making you feel guilty for not playing it, but digital files are easy to forget and usually get buried under all the free downloaded mixes.

as for CD decay: i buy quite a few but i don't play 'em so i don't worry. i'm spoddy enough to rip them straight to a lossless format and store them on a little RAID array with off-site backup. what a sad wanker, eh?

benw
25-03-2010, 01:35 PM
just spent like 60 quid on discogs on vinyl just now, and spent 50 quids worth of credit at a shop on the stuff the other day. i dj off cds when i play clubs tho. i'm gonna try to slowly digitize my collection (or at least the stuff i want to play out). i'm better at playing off cds, and it's less to lug around.


this pretty much sums up my vinyl habits - buy a £20 lot once or twice a month, rip it for playing out and keep playing it at home. definitely not dead... declaring living things dead = dsf meme!

Blackdown
25-03-2010, 01:36 PM
i'm spoddy enough to rip them straight to a lossless format and store them on a little RAID array with off-site backup. what a sad wanker, eh?

or this (http://www.carbonite.com/).

4linehaiku
25-03-2010, 01:52 PM
Offsite backup is admirable, but isn't uploading that much stuff over your standard broadband completely unfeasible? Even if you have some top end 24mbit connection you still can't upload much more than 100kb/s (well I can't anyway).

massrock
25-03-2010, 01:55 PM
Streaming services like Spotify are the way things are gonna go I believe.

After that we might see some sort of highly robust ultra dense digital storage devices where you can have an entire universe on a keyring. Don't want to leave it on the bus.

The main failing of Spotify at the moment for me is that there is just so much stuff not on there. Will also be a bit more useful when highspeed net access is more ubiquitous.

Elijah
25-03-2010, 02:22 PM
When vinyl dies for real Butterz will only exist to direct you to quality free music.

rwtt
25-03-2010, 02:33 PM
Offsite backup is admirable, but isn't uploading that much stuff over your standard broadband completely unfeasible? Even if you have some top end 24mbit connection you still can't upload much more than 100kb/s (well I can't anyway).

when i first decided i needed to do this, i had to let it upload constantly for 10 days straight, but i don't notice it now as it just backs up incrementally. FWIW, i use SugarSync and it works well, that link from Blackdown is also a similar service. i hope i never have to use it and download all that stuff again, but still. it's good to know it's there! CDs are just shiny round receipts now.

(i keep meaning to blog some of my really nerdy stuff about managing digital music libraries, keeping on top of downloaded mixes etc but that would take me into territory dangerously close to my real job, which i try not to think about unless i have to.)

Blackdown
25-03-2010, 03:07 PM
Offsite backup is admirable, but isn't uploading that much stuff over your standard broadband completely unfeasible? Even if you have some top end 24mbit connection you still can't upload much more than 100kb/s (well I can't anyway).

it took me about two months to do. i have 2.5 Tb of space now, so i'm resigned to the fact that even tho it hasnt got everything backed up it has most of it.

matt b
25-03-2010, 03:15 PM
I was all for vinyl purism until last night, when I spent about two hours trying to record some UK reggae records digitally- fucking around with cables, a mic input into my shitty netbook not connecting properly, autacity being a piece of shit, having to move my amp on all fours to get to the inputs, 7"s falling all around me. Ended up digging out my old iriver, which would only record for about 2 seconds until it felt that I had wasted enough time on it to start working, Acid being shit on my shit netbook, listening to the 4 songs I did manage to record and them sounding shit, until I spent half an hour fiddling with the sound controls on my shitty netbook. More records falling down whilst this was going on.

nomos
25-03-2010, 03:33 PM
^^ it's this image that always stops me whenever the words "you should back it all up" run through my head.

What tips do people have for archiving vinyl properly?
I have my Technics, a good audio interface. Saving as 16-bit, 44khz aiffs, which is fine to my ears.

I've run into a balance problem though when I record - noticing that one channel (usually, but I don't think always the same one) comes out a couple of db louder. I thought it was the interface, exchanged it, no change. I changed the leads, no change. Checked, remounted and switched my cartridges, no change. I've narrowed it down to either my needles not being perfectly aligned (i.e. cartridges not screwed in just right) or the original recordings themselves not being perfectly balanced to begin with. :slanted:

rwtt
25-03-2010, 03:42 PM
I have my Technics, a good audio interface. Saving as 16-bit, 44khz aiffs, which is fine to my ears.


i only really record mixes rather than individual records. i use an Edirol R09 handheld recorder plugged into my mixer and record straight to 44.1kHz 16 bit WAV. then i EQ and normalise it in Logic and correct as many of my level fuckups as i can by drawing in some automation. i'm mostly very happy with the quality i get but...



I've run into a balance problem though when I record - noticing that one channel (usually, but I don't think always the same one) comes out a couple of db louder.


...i often experience this too and i've no idea why!

benw
25-03-2010, 03:45 PM
yeah i also have that problem, whether ripping vinyl or recording a mix... very strange.

crackerjack
25-03-2010, 03:49 PM
Where was I? In London, about two weeks after moving down here, deciding that while I could justify 3 record racks, ranging from moderate to massive, a further 8 boxes cluttering up every square inch of my new bedroom wsa a bit much. Not long after that, I started getting more pleasure from selling records than buying them. Vinyl hasn't died for me, but it's been relatively unwell ever since.

Dusty
25-03-2010, 03:52 PM
I only ever dabbled in vinyl, although my dabbling was probably on the same scale as some casual vinyl collectors - a few crates worth anyway. It died for me when I filled my one bedroom flat with records and CDs, with no room for anything else.

The vinyl goes, and as I slowly ripped my thousands of CDs to FLAC I thought about selling those off as well. Then one of my 1TB drives died on me (backed up thankfully) but at that moment I realised having it all on little plastic discs in WAV format wasn't such a bad form of backup after all. Pure digital died for me that day - the CDs are now staying.

Richard Carnage
25-03-2010, 04:13 PM
...a mic input into my shitty netbook not connecting properly...

Trust me. You don't want to be recording through this at all. And doesn't vinyl purism mean that you don't have to bother with any of this?

Richard Carnage
25-03-2010, 04:14 PM
I've run into a balance problem though when I record

Is the main balance setting on the mixer ok? Maybe it's been calibrated incorrectly?

rwtt
25-03-2010, 04:23 PM
Is the main balance setting on the mixer ok? Maybe it's been calibrated incorrectly?

i had a dodgy channel fader cause this once, but i've experienced it in other setups too where the fader wasn't to blame...

nomos
25-03-2010, 04:28 PM
I've gone through the mixer and I've gone directly through an RIAA box, and switched left and right leads on both. Same every way.

Woebot
25-03-2010, 04:28 PM
What tips do people have for archiving vinyl properly?
I have my Technics, a good audio interface. Saving as 16-bit, 44khz aiffs, which is fine to my ears.

It's ALL ABOUT the AD<>DA.

You need a great convertor. If I ever sell my record collection (like never) I'll buy some Prism kit. Prism Orpheus looks mighty tempting. Right now I have Apogee, which is brilliant. Most of the arguments in favour of vinyl crumble with good convertors.

Everybody on a Mac should buy an Apogee One/Duet. I expect its just a matter of time before Apple buy them.

nomos
25-03-2010, 04:44 PM
^^ Mmmm, I've looked at those. Good to know. I bought an NI AK-1 based on excellent reviews (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/niaudiokontrol.htm) of the converters. Paul Meme was talking once about archiving vinyl using a wooden Grado cartridge whittled by Zen monks or something. That sounded like the way to go on the output side.

matt b
25-03-2010, 04:49 PM
Trust me. You don't want to be recording through this at all. And doesn't vinyl purism mean that you don't have to bother with any of this?

It depends on how feasable taking a portable record player on your daily commute is

gremino
25-03-2010, 04:49 PM
I have also the unbalanced stereo issue, and I have suspected slight damages in needles (the other needle has worse balance).

Nowadays there's turntables featuring output for USB stick for recording your vinyls straight to it.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/numark_pt_01_usb.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/american_audio_tt_record.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/numark_tt_usb.htm
http://www.thomann.de/gb/stanton_t_92_usb.htm

Has anyone any experiences from these? Planning to buy a one...

mms
25-03-2010, 04:57 PM
i still buy vinyl and cds - i'm not a purist, they sound better and i don't end up deleting them or loosing them like mp3s - i need something physical there to remind me to listen to it sorta thing.

matt b
25-03-2010, 05:01 PM
Trust me. You don't want to be recording through this at all.

My USB recorder thing doesn't work on my shitty netbook does it?

Richard Carnage
25-03-2010, 05:20 PM
My USB recorder thing doesn't work on my shitty netbook does it?

A USB recorder should be a much better option, but you were saying that you were having some problems with it? The mic input just isn't built for high quality audio.

4linehaiku
25-03-2010, 05:21 PM
when i first decided i needed to do this, i had to let it upload constantly for 10 days straight, but i don't notice it now as it just backs up incrementally. FWIW, i use SugarSync and it works well, that link from Blackdown is also a similar service. i hope i never have to use it and download all that stuff again, but still. it's good to know it's there! CDs are just shiny round receipts now.

(i keep meaning to blog some of my really nerdy stuff about managing digital music libraries, keeping on top of downloaded mixes etc but that would take me into territory dangerously close to my real job, which i try not to think about unless i have to.)

Not quite as bad as I thought, though I would be more at Blackdown's level. 2 months is quite a lot of uploading. You should write that blog post though, it's quite a complicated area. I've got the storage sorted (ZFS) but haven't really found a good player / library manager. It's undeniably nerdy as fuck, but this is Dissensus.

I also always get the unbalanced channels, whether it's mixes, radio shows, or single tracks. I always assumed it was the cartridges.

lazybrowndog
25-03-2010, 05:23 PM
i still buy plenty vinyl (anything i really like, old stuff, tempting 7"s, charity shop buys,boomkat splurges, ebay splurges, stuff where i can't stop thinking about the lovely cover staring at me through the window in underground solushn) but have sold, binned and charity shopped all but my most cherished cd's and am happy with mp3s for the house, car, headphones and Vinyl for parties etc ... vinyl sounds lovely in the living room and its so nice to just look at eh

matt b
25-03-2010, 05:33 PM
A USB recorder should be a much better option, but you were saying that you were having some problems with it? The mic input just isn't built for high quality audio.

Netbook doesn't recognise recorder, hence all the scrabbling with cables

john eden
25-03-2010, 05:34 PM
People who "back up" their vinyl must have a lot of time on their hands and an abject fear of fire or flooding?

Richard Carnage
25-03-2010, 05:55 PM
Netbook doesn't recognise recorder, hence all the scrabbling with cables

What a shitter, as Marcus Nasty most probably said earlier today.

gumdrops
25-03-2010, 06:05 PM
i still love and still buy vinyl. will always be my favourite format. only prob is when you move or when you start to run out of space. but it sounds the best (though the fact ive got old 70s speakers might have something to do with it) and better than cd (esp for certain genres imo, though everything sounds better really) and i just love having big fat slabs of vinyl around. i wish it was cheaper for new records though, and that it was easier to digitise, though tbh, i cant be bothered doing that. its easier for me to just tape it onto old tdks and use my walkman (which i still do when i tape radio sets). i dont totally know why someone would 'back up' vinyl, mp3s yeah, but records? though id hate for anything to happen to mine.

did have a moment today when my nephew was attempting to climb up on a stack of records to get onto another shelf where i thought something might happen but all was ok in the end.

see, babies could never climb up on mp3s could they? ;) :cool: :p

rwtt
25-03-2010, 06:42 PM
Not quite as bad as I thought, though I would be more at Blackdown's level. 2 months is quite a lot of uploading.

you can throttle the bandwidth used by most backup software of this sort, so you can drip feed your data into the cloud if you don't want to piss off your ISP. and once it's done, it's done, except for whatever you add to your library later.

i know it's a trite thing to say :D but if you ever have to restore from a full backup, the time and/or money you've spent on it will be irrelevant. you know it makes sense! it seems like a day doesn't go by at the moment without some producer or DJ crying all over twitter because they lost a computer or trashed a hard drive and no longer want to live...

petergunn
25-03-2010, 07:05 PM
vinyl dies for me everytime i got to Rock and Soul Records, the last man standing of NYC's classic record stores for club dj's... the type of place if you went friday afternoon, it was a frenzy of people getting new joints for their weekend gigs... now, it's a ghost town in there and it feels like 3 new records come in each month...

that said, i still buy tons of vinyl and feel like a mug paying money for mp3's... i have bought like 3 mp3's in my life...

connect_icut
25-03-2010, 08:30 PM
For me, it was working in a record store for six years, until about three years ago. Seeing all this cool stuff every day and starting to wonder why I ever switched to CDs. (I guess it just seemed like the thing to do, at the time). So glad I switched back, for any number of reasons.

Where I live vinyl sales appear to be booming. It seems like the record shops that survive will be the small vinyl stores catering to specialist audiences. Maybe that doesn't reflect what's happening in other towns, though.

Anyone else made the journey back from CDs to vinyl? (Maybe someone already mentioned this - I haven't been through the whole thread. If so: sorry.)

Big Nose
25-03-2010, 08:34 PM
I dont think vinyl will die for a long time, there's always going to be a hardcore of music lovers buying it.

I use to buy MP3s but then one day I realised how unrewarding the format is. I have thousands of MP3s sitting on my hard drive but compared to the little congregation of wax sitting in the corner of my room, they mean fuck all.

IdleRich
25-03-2010, 09:10 PM
"People who "back up" their vinyl must have a lot of time on their hands and an abject fear of fire or flooding?"
Yeah. And if my vinyl gets destroyed the back-up won't be vinyl it will be another (inferior to me) format so what's the point?

rwtt
25-03-2010, 10:50 PM
People who "back up" their vinyl must have a lot of time on their hands and an abject fear of fire or flooding?

in a way there's a kind of masochistic thrill in knowing that one day in the next couple of years i'll get up on a saturday morning to find my kids have shoved a bunch of records down the back of a hot radiator or something. it makes me appreciate my vinyl all the more now, un-crayolaed.

Sick Boy
26-03-2010, 02:46 AM
I tried to switch to purely digital, but let's face it: owning the vinyl vs. owning a confirmation e-mail that your downloads are complete. No competition.

So I went back. Also because the value of the pound right now is total shite which means I can get vinyl for cheaper than I'd buy it here in Canada, even after delivery.

Sick Boy
26-03-2010, 02:52 AM
vinyl dies for me everytime i got to Rock and Soul Records, the last man standing of NYC's classic record stores for club dj's... the type of place if you went friday afternoon, it was a frenzy of people getting new joints for their weekend gigs... now, it's a ghost town in there and it feels like 3 new records come in each month... .

I do mourn this aspect though. Actually I mourn the fact that we're increasingly being able to do virtually anything we want at a sufficient and satisfactory level without ever leaving our homes. It's a golden age for the hermit.

I live round the corner from a record shop but I don't go there because they don't stock anything worth buying. Well, unless you like dubstep from three months ago.

mms
26-03-2010, 08:24 AM
I do mourn this aspect though. Actually I mourn the fact that we're increasingly being able to do virtually anything we want at a sufficient and satisfactory level without ever leaving our homes. It's a golden age for the hermit.

I live round the corner from a record shop but I don't go there because they don't stock anything worth buying. Well, unless you like dubstep from three months ago.


yes i feel i really don't go to shops enough too.

Alfons
26-03-2010, 08:36 AM
re. the backup thing, my music collection (mp3s) is the least of my worries in this regard. My documents, my pictures, my old homework etc, that is stuff I don't want to loose. But music and/or videos, bah... even the most obscure part of it shouldn't be so hard to track down in case my hard disk dies, with all these torrents, rapid shares, my mates still having their computers/hard disks.

FairiesWearBoots
26-03-2010, 08:41 AM
I buy more now than I have ever done - I started buying Jungle/drum & bass on vinyl in 94/95 and then stopped around 99, discovering dubstep in 06 made me want to start again (and prompted me to fianlly get the 2nd 1210)

I think (hope) it will always be around, I want to pass it on to my kids, I cant see it dissapearing completely (not yet anyway):(

I D'L whatever I want and this helps me choose what vinyl to buy

urbanite
26-03-2010, 08:43 AM
mmm... still buying loads of vinyl... although I have a pretty utilitarian philosophy about it, I mostly buy singles and things I intend to play out, and I don't really listen to them outside the context of putting together a mix or preparing for a gig. Albums I'll still buy on CD, as it always has been the easiest to listen to em, nowadays they just get ripped to my mp3 player though, I still like having them for the car and such...

sadly there is no shop to go hang out at around here, I still make the occasional trip to a real brick and mortar store every once in a while when I'm in a city that got some though, especially it's useful for finding 12" which are rare and might just be sitting there without anyone noticing... Otherwise it's just mail order, and the online stores are good enough these days with all the same pre-listen facilities.

Recently got myself Serato, mostly with the idea of getting hard to get otherwise tracks in digital (no less than wavs usually), and for practicing when I'm away from my vinyl, still finding that real vinyl is louder and sounds better than Serato though, even if it's an SL3

baboon2004
26-03-2010, 10:13 AM
i know it's a trite thing to say :D but if you ever have to restore from a full backup, the time and/or money you've spent on it will be irrelevant. you know it makes sense! it seems like a day doesn't go by at the moment without some producer or DJ crying all over twitter because they lost a computer or trashed a hard drive and no longer want to live...

this sounds like great scenario for a film/play, come to think of it - the artist in existential and technological anguish. Sure someone must've already done it.

IdleRich
26-03-2010, 02:57 PM
When I get a job and start buying records again I'm gonna try and visit more shops and buy less online. Or maybe do both.

April 17th is International Record Store Day - big drive to get people to support independent shops and stuff - think there are some special releases coming out.

http://www.recordstoreday.com/Home

There is some kind of daytime mini-event thing in Bristol (and probably some evening stuff too) which I'm going to try and get down to - not sure what's happening elsewhere but should be something.

craner
26-03-2010, 03:00 PM
I was in Algeria, hanging out with jihadis.

grizzleb
26-03-2010, 04:47 PM
I haven't bought vinyl in maybe 2 years, had slipped for maybe 3 years prior to that just buying occasionally. But there was a period where I would spend my pocket money every week on one or two records. Much of the stuff I still have is real shit, but recently I've had a drive to try and get some records again. I do pay for music as and when I can.

Interesting question -in what way do people buy music these days?
I only buy music if I think that the producer is someone worth supporting, it's hard to explain. Like if I listen to an album once in a blue moon I won't pay for it. But if it's an artist that I think is really underappreciated, or I listen to all the time I'll try and buy it.

Also - what kind of media supports the artist most? I'd like to be able to just donate to some artists, bypassing the record stores or any product. Like, I'd give 50 quid to someone just cause I think they're amazing...

Ness Rowlah
26-03-2010, 10:46 PM
Last year sometime I decided to not get any more vinyl or CDs. I've gone all digital (Spotify premium although the iPhone client is shit
and MP3s).

Vinyl has lost its grip in terms of emotional tie up and also as an artifact, CDs never had it
(unless they are signed, hand-decorated or something: the mass produced CD with shit liner
notes can just die now please).

A couple of days ago I walked into a couple of the record shops on/off Berwick Street (London)
and just thought "Why are people still buying this stuff?" I'll pay my 10 quid month for Spotify,
but paying 8 quid for whitelabel dubstep 12" just won't happen again.

ZFS - that's proper. Been thinking the same: got a couple of old Intel boxes I could put Solaris or BSD on (it just sounds too much like work though).

In the past I would have plucked up a thing like this as soon as I saw it,
now I just let it go. Projects like these are what will keep physical media going
for a long long time (limited edtion, good subject, nice object)
http://www.secondlanguagemusic.com/SL02.html

DJ PIMP
27-03-2010, 06:39 AM
ideally, i'd say i was somewhere getting my balls licked.

in reality, i was bitching about vinyl on the internets.

hahaha, vinyl supremacists! choke it down!!!

samdiamond
27-03-2010, 10:45 AM
I love vinyl and I'm not sure i could ever see myself completely digitise. However it's getting harder and harder to play in clubs with. Last night I played out at a pretty premier east london club, one of the tonearms on the right 1210 was broken and kept skipping to the point where I had to just play on one deck. These kinda problems happen cos hardly anyones playing on vinyl i assume and as i understand it systems now get pushed towards digital so vinyl sounds shit on them anyway. it's a sad state of affairs but I think I'm gonna have to take some back up cds everywhere i play now.

DannyL
27-03-2010, 12:10 PM
When I get a job and start buying records again I'm gonna try and visit more shops and buy less online. Or maybe do both.

April 17th is International Record Store Day - big drive to get people to support independent shops and stuff - think there are some special releases coming out.

http://www.recordstoreday.com/Home

There is some kind of daytime mini-event thing in Bristol (and probably some evening stuff too) which I'm going to try and get down to - not sure what's happening elsewhere but should be something.

I find going to shops a little bit frustrating, in terms of price at least. Does force you to take a much more open view on what you might buy though which is for the good. Record fairs like Olympia make me feel like I've joined a mysterious legion of old men though. Mind you, I was talking to one of my students about record collecting this week so the bug lives on...

This is a bit mental but an amusing read: http://www.furious.com/perfect/recordfairs.html

Record collecting hasn't really died for me, it's more like it's been reborn. I rediscovered an old interest, indulge my geeky side, found out about loads of amazing music and genres I was previously unaware of and met tons of people. It's been a refreshing change and influence. It enhances me social life (I can't imagine taking a few beers and some MP3s round to a mate's house being as interesting). It even encourages me to be creative in the broadest sense of the term, with a little bit of DJing, making comp CDs and so on.

A lot of the above could've happened with digital music, I suppose, but vinyl seems to have brought out the best sides of all the above.

Damien
27-03-2010, 12:29 PM
I find that none of the music I want to listen to is stocked in any of the record stores in Newcastle, and if it is stocked then they are normally months behind the time when I have already bought it online

I buy a lot less crap records since I stopped record shopping locally

grizzleb
27-03-2010, 01:16 PM
I find going to shops a little bit frustrating, in terms of price at least. Does force you to take a much more open view on what you might buy though which is for the good. Record fairs like Olympia make me feel like I've joined a mysterious legion of old men though. Mind you, I was talking to one of my students about record collecting this week so the bug lives on...

This is a bit mental but an amusing read: http://www.furious.com/perfect/recordfairs.html

Record collecting hasn't really died for me, it's more like it's been reborn. I rediscovered an old interest, indulge my geeky side, found out about loads of amazing music and genres I was previously unaware of and met tons of people. It's been a refreshing change and influence. It enhances me social life (I can't imagine taking a few beers and some MP3s round to a mate's house being as interesting). It even encourages me to be creative in the broadest sense of the term, with a little bit of DJing, making comp CDs and so on.

A lot of the above could've happened with digital music, I suppose, but vinyl seems to have brought out the best sides of all the above.It's interesting you say this, but recently I've been going through a renaissance of musical enjoyment. It seems like me and the friends I have who are into tunes are endlessly trawling over gems, all the time, the last year or two has just been an explosion of quality music from everywhere, in every vein, every style. I sometimes feel a bit spoiled but then I forget and stick on some more amazing unheard tracks. I think the internet destroys alot of locality; now I can get my hand on a romanian punk rock thing that was made into 200 tapes as soon as I can get the latest chart fodder. Maybe that's dangerous, and maybe it removes some of the romance, but damn, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't exciting.
I still spend as much time trying to find music as I did years ago, it just seems that nowadays I can't move before I'm bumping into good shit.
I found I used to buy records to Dj with, which limited my purchasing ancd usually forced me down the worst 'tracky' route, and often I'd just buy anything in store even if it wasn't amazing. The lack of constraints in financial terms means my tastes can just include whatever I feel like - I now listen to everything, I used to dislike such and such, but I think that was probably because I just couldn't afford to take the risk of buying a cd that could be shit, so I wouldn't stray outside genres as much. Now a difficult listen becomes something that is asked of you as a music listener...always the strange, different, sideways shit.
This has all been when I've not had access to second hand vinyl shops ala london or whatnot though. Maybe things will change when I'm earning a decent wage.

DannyL
27-03-2010, 01:45 PM
It's interesting you say this, but recently I've been going through a renaissance of musical enjoyment. It seems like me and the friends I have who are into tunes are endlessly trawling over gems, all the time, the last year or two has just been an explosion of quality music from everywhere, in every vein, every style. I sometimes feel a bit spoiled but then I forget and stick on some more amazing unheard tracks. I think the internet destroys alot of locality; now I can get my hand on a romanian punk rock thing that was made into 200 tapes as soon as I can get the latest chart fodder. Maybe that's dangerous, and maybe it removes some of the romance, but damn, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't exciting.
I still spend as much time trying to find music as I did years ago, it just seems that nowadays I can't move before I'm bumping into good shit.
I found I used to buy records to Dj with, which limited my purchasing ancd usually forced me down the worst 'tracky' route, and often I'd just buy anything in store even if it wasn't amazing. The lack of constraints in financial terms means my tastes can just include whatever I feel like - I now listen to everything, I used to dislike such and such, but I think that was probably because I just couldn't afford to take the risk of buying a cd that could be shit, so I wouldn't stray outside genres as much. Now a difficult listen becomes something that is asked of you as a music listener...always the strange, different, sideways shit.
This has all been when I've not had access to second hand vinyl shops ala london or whatnot though. Maybe things will change when I'm earning a decent wage.

You sound a bit like one of my mates who's not a vinyl head (though he has just got a turntable) - everytime I see him, he plays me something great. I think just as the net has up opened up so many opportunities in terms of what we can listen it's also broadened the buying experience for vinyl a lot. A mate of mine (who's a record dealer) said to me "this is probably the best time ever to get into collecting records" a while back and I think he was right. The collectible MAD RAERS will always be top dollar, but the range of stuff available, the ease with which one can find a bargain and check out soundclips and so forth before you buy - it's a shame so many shops have gone but all the above - it's all pretty amazing really.

massrock
27-03-2010, 01:57 PM
I find that none of the music I want to listen to is stocked in any of the record stores in Newcastle, and if it is stocked then they are normally months behind the time when I have already bought it online

I buy a lot less crap records since I stopped record shopping locally
It's really difficult for small record shops, and obviously has become even more so. One thing is that they need to order a certain amount from a given distributor to make it worthwhile, so it can take a while for stuff to come through even if you've placed an order. Also it's risky to take a chance on a lot of stuff which might only sell in 1s and 2s, especially as it's difficult for many customers not to get impatient and get it online, or lose initial interest. Then there's the matter of cash-flow and being able to order stuff at all regularly, not to mention overheads like rent which often mean it's hard to compete with online retailers even when postage is taken into account.

I have noticed that even the moodiest of record shop staff have had to start making more of an effort in the last few years though...

Alfons
27-03-2010, 02:23 PM
Discogs feature on RA by Richard Carnes (think he posts here from time to time?)
quite a good read, would have liked an even longer more in depth look at it.
http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature.aspx?1166

Damien
27-03-2010, 02:26 PM
It's really difficult for small record shops, and obviously has become even more so. One thing is that they need to order a certain amount from a given distributor to make it worthwhile, so it can take a while for stuff to come through even if you've placed an order. Also it's risky to take a chance on a lot of stuff which might only sell in 1s and 2s, especially as it's difficult for many customers not to get impatient and get it online, or lose initial interest. Then there's the matter of cash-flow and being able to order stuff at all regularly, not to mention overheads like rent which often mean it's hard to compete with online retailers even when postage is taken into account.

That in no way helps me get the music I want though, and I'm hardly going to sleep on records in the vain hope that the local store MAY get them in at some point

I do feel for the record store owners though, it's a crap climate to be in right now

Alfons
27-03-2010, 05:45 PM
so do people think it will end up just being huge warehouse type shops (juno etc) and the more legendary shops in big cities (hardwax, black market, sotu)? Can you run a single record shop in a medium sized city these days?

gumdrops
27-03-2010, 07:11 PM
I have noticed that even the moodiest of record shop staff have had to start making more of an effort in the last few years though...

this is prob the best thing about record shops being threatened. i remember when i used to go to mr bongos and theyd just treat you like crap. dont know how they ever thought that was a good way to do business.

IanTheM
27-03-2010, 07:41 PM
so do people think it will end up just being huge warehouse type shops (juno etc) and the more legendary shops in big cities (hardwax, black market, sotu)? Can you run a single record shop in a medium sized city these days?

They're barely managing it here in Vancouver, we just had the Olympics and most of the shops lost money in that time.

connect_icut
28-03-2010, 06:44 AM
They're barely managing it here in Vancouver, we just had the Olympics and most of the shops lost money in that time.

To be fair, Red Cat (which is right by where I live) seems to be doing really well and just moved across the street to a space about four times the size of the one it previously occupied. On the whole, though, I do get the feeling that other stores in Vancouver are having a bit of a hard time.

IanTheM
28-03-2010, 09:27 AM
To be fair, Red Cat (which is right by where I live) seems to be doing really well and just moved across the street to a space about four times the size of the one it previously occupied. On the whole, though, I do get the feeling that other stores in Vancouver are having a bit of a hard time.

Yeah, I never make my way to Red Cat & Zulu much, mostly because my vinyl spending are usually restricted to dance music so I got downtown (plus Gastown's not out of the way for me). Beat Street only last week took off their 50% sales, I managed to pick up a bunch of nice techno/house stuff on a whim there.

IdleRich
16-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Tomorrow I think, loads of events at Rough Trade and probably loads of places. Dunno all the info but have a google and you'll find some stuff I'm sure.

john eden
16-04-2010, 12:32 PM
two recent hauls:

at 20 pence a record.

Fucking A.

http://img175.yfrog.com/img175/8329/5ic.jpg
http://img693.yfrog.com/img693/5585/kg7.jpg

It's about 90 pieces and I have thrown away eight of them for being crap or unplayable.

That's probably my best result ever in about 25 years of buying tunes.

connect_icut
16-04-2010, 04:43 PM
Tomorrow I think, loads of events at Rough Trade and probably loads of places. Dunno all the info but have a google and you'll find some stuff I'm sure.

I'm dead excited about this. I live literally one minute's walk from an indie record store (http://www.redcat.ca/), so I'm going to rush 'round there first thing in the morning and try to grab the special Arthur Russell release. I also wanted to get the coloured vinyl re-issue of Sonic Youth's Confusion is Sex but apparently they're not actually going to get that out in time for Record Store Day.

There are full lists of exclusive RSD releases here...

US
http://www.recordstoreday.com/templates/Store/pretty_new/rsd/RSD_2010_RELEASES_WEBSITE.pdf

UK
http://www.indierecordshop.org/?p=316

petergunn
16-04-2010, 07:40 PM
I'm dead excited about this. I live literally one minute's walk from an indie record store (http://www.redcat.ca/), so I'm going to rush 'round there first thing in the morning and try to grab the special Arthur Russell release. I also wanted to get the coloured vinyl re-issue of Sonic Youth's Confusion is Sex but apparently they're not actually going to get that out in time for Record Store Day.

There are full lists of exclusive RSD releases here...

US
http://www.recordstoreday.com/templates/Store/pretty_new/rsd/RSD_2010_RELEASES_WEBSITE.pdf

UK
http://www.indierecordshop.org/?p=316

how do you know which stores have what? the Fela promo looks cool...

IdleRich
16-04-2010, 08:10 PM
"It's about 90 pieces and I have thrown away eight of them for being crap or unplayable.
That's probably my best result ever in about 25 years of buying tunes."
Good stuff.
Trying to flog my copy of this (pretty average to my ears) record at the moment. Picked it up for a fiver a few years back and never rated it - surprised it's worth so much.

http://www.musicpriceguide.com/642770/Canada-Funky-Garage-Freakbeat-Fuzz-Mod-MICHAEL-TARRY.html

4linehaiku
17-04-2010, 08:50 AM
Happy Record Store Day everyone.
I'm going to go and see if I can get that Grace Jones / Digital Mystikz record, but I won't be too surprised if London shops got all 500 or something stupid like that.

benjybars
17-04-2010, 10:25 AM
yep Happy Record Store day!

gonna go and see ufo do his thing at bm-soho i reckon. see anyone down there?

nochexxx
17-04-2010, 10:44 AM
woke up and immediately threw money at Honest Jons. i don't think they're listed as participants (not that that makes a difference!).

RSD provides an apt excuse to spend more money than usual. if your a music addict, then it does a feel a bit like handing a junkie a loaded needle.

4linehaiku
17-04-2010, 11:34 AM
So I got the Mystikz record + 7 others + found out they sold loads of stuff I didn't know they did + I now feel really bad for not shopping there more often.

Well played, record store day, well played.

benw
17-04-2010, 04:24 PM
yep Happy Record Store day!

gonna go and see ufo do his thing at bm-soho i reckon. see anyone down there?

were you there for ufo mate? must have missed you, i was down there. didnt make it to el-b - dropped out after floating points/alex nut - wicked day all round tho, nuff free cider.

Brother Randy Hickey
18-04-2010, 01:18 AM
copies of Flaming Lips doing Dark Side of the Moon sold as part of National Record Store day are now on ebay at £250 plus already.

The day is sort of a nice idea, but when all the limited edition stuff is being sold to vultures, it sticks in my craw a bit..

IdleRich
19-04-2010, 05:55 PM
"copies of Flaming Lips doing Dark Side of the Moon sold as part of National Record Store day are now on ebay at £250 plus already.
The day is sort of a nice idea, but when all the limited edition stuff is being sold to vultures, it sticks in my craw a bit.."
Was gonna ask if anyone copped the Blur one - that was going for similar money. Not really in the spirit though is it...
Also

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Beatles-Paperback-Writer-Rain-Record-Store-Day-7_W0QQitemZ280494504637


"I'm going to go and see if I can get that Grace Jones / Digital Mystikz record, but I won't be too surprised if London shops got all 500 or something stupid like that."
Think most of the people I know who did the best live outside London.

Anyone get the Paul Weller one? People keep telling me that it's good! Or the remix is at least.

bobbin
20-04-2010, 12:24 PM
there's nothing more motivating than a stack of vinyl in the corner of the room making you feel guilty for not playing it, but digital files are easy to forget and usually get buried under all the free downloaded mixes.


i still buy vinyl and cds - i'm not a purist, they sound better and i don't end up deleting them or loosing them like mp3s - i need something physical there to remind me to listen to it sorta thing.


I use to buy MP3s but then one day I realised how unrewarding the format is. I have thousands of MP3s sitting on my hard drive but compared to the little congregation of wax sitting in the corner of my room, they mean fuck all.

i think really this is all about whether you want to relate to music as an object or in the abstract. it's not just the practicalities in themselves, it's the difference between having a synergy of sound and thing or not.

at one end of the spectrum, vinyl is surely ultimate. wasn't there something in more brilliant than the sun about the magic of seeing/hearing the music come out of the groove? at the other end is spotify. a database query directed at something containing randomly allocated bytes from millions of encoded recordings, that you will never perceive because it's in an air conditioned room with no windows somewhere in india.

personally i find it hard to relate to that in an enjoyable way.

Chef Napalm
21-04-2010, 11:41 AM
I just love records. I have a CDJ, but I realized the other day that I haven't even turned it on in 8 months. As for digital, Theo said it best:


Itís convenient; ainít got to carry around records. Ainít got to worry about customs. You can bring your whole collection to a party. Your whole collection? I mean, I walk into a party and I know you got access to 50.000 records? 50.000!?! You know what Iím going to expect out of you? Iím going to want my DNA changed!

outraygeous
21-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Thats a great quote by Theo!

Its kinda like when I saw Various Productions DJ off a laptop and it took them at least 4 mins to go from one tune to the next.

Sectionfive
21-04-2010, 12:47 PM
Was in a Cd place yesterday that had a wall of vinyl.
There was only one copy of each record, they had Blue lines, Screamadelica, The Man Machine, Room on Fire, some Duke Ellington and stuff like that. They were all fairly "iconic" albums or at least LPs some people might think are 'cool'. Everything was at least 30 euro.

I couldnt figure out whether it was the shop selling vinyl for sake of it or were people supposed to buy these tunes so they could impress people when they frame them on their wall when they get home or whatever

Chef Napalm
21-04-2010, 01:15 PM
Thats a great quote by Theo!

It comes from this RBMA vid. (http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/video-archive/lectures/theo_parrish__3_cheers_for_the_d) The whole video is gold.

Brother Randy Hickey
26-04-2010, 11:45 AM
these have been done to death, but one last one because it's ace


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd2rvt_beleaguered-fall-fan_creation

DannyL
26-04-2010, 11:50 AM
Was in a Cd place yesterday that had a wall of vinyl.
There was only one copy of each record, they had Blue lines, Screamadelica, The Man Machine, Room on Fire, some Duke Ellington and stuff like that. They were all fairly "iconic" albums or at least LPs some people might think are 'cool'. Everything was at least 30 euro.

I couldnt figure out whether it was the shop selling vinyl for sake of it or were people supposed to buy these tunes so they could impress people when they frame them on their wall when they get home or whatever

Sounds like the latter. Why else would you pay 30 E for stuff you could pick up elsewhere for a third of the price, unless you're buying into the concept of vinyl as desirable collectible? It sounds like a post record store day cash in.

Sectionfive
26-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Indeed, vinyl for people who dont buy records.
But then again it could lead to someone starting a collection so what harm.

Got sent this today. Is this the norm now ?


Important - please note that anyone using vinyl if you can bring needles to avoid any problems on the day

DannyL
26-04-2010, 05:33 PM
Me and Rich played out on Friday and Rich took his own. One of my mates will only play his records on his own needles (he won't even play stuff he brings round my flat! He's a condition freak but I think it's a good idea if you're playing out on a regular basis and buying OGs. Carrying around a load of records in a bag can mash 'em up enough, why go that extra mile?

Alfons
26-04-2010, 05:45 PM
Indeed, vinyl for people who dont buy records.
But then again it could lead to someone starting a collection so what harm.

Got sent this today. Is this the norm now ?

Hasn't this always been the norm? It definitely should be imo. Bring needles, headphones & records, sometimes you might ask to use the clubs/the previous' dj's needles but one should always bring ones own pair to the venue.

Sectionfive
26-04-2010, 05:53 PM
I haven't been doing enough gigs.... Just thought it was usually at your own choice thats all.

Leo
20-01-2015, 01:15 PM
geez, i really miss two turntables and a microphone...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coYP7YR7M9o#t=120