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Woebot
21-03-2005, 05:18 AM
Rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only place to buy records is online.

The best thing about them is you're confronted with stuff you didnt think you wanted, that which you never knew about, but you can engineer chance encounters like that online. I suppose also there's the psychogeographical thing, but can't one just do a lit bit of flaneur-ing on the side to compensate.

The main problem with record stores is that the stock is nowadays picked clean, for one the staff ensure this. Furthermore all the interesting records now never come anywhere shops. Dealesr take them straight from the kind of diggerati sources you and I have scant time to explore and sell them on eBay or GEMM.

Obviously I'm mainly talking about second-hand records, but for my money something like Independance outperforms any of the high street stores and while not to insult London's greatest stores (lets face it there are no contenders) Honest Jons, Rough Trade and Soul Jazz more and more I suspect their hearts aren't in it (all three have their own labels as there is no money in retailing) and also they're stylistically hamstrung (Rough Trade which tried to keep up with Jungle has given up in the face of Grime (says a lot about their approach in general). Besides you can get all this new stuff cheaper online anyway.

Accordingly here is a snapshot of the new letterbox i'm getting fitted:

Canada J Soup
21-03-2005, 06:35 AM
You might want to think about having the Hardkiss record removed, it could get in the way of deliveries.

I buy maybe 80% of my music online, partly because I can get stuff I want without having to make time to go to and look for it in the real world and partly I'm less likely to be disappointed if I have a particular record in mind. Still, I get a much bigger kick out of going into a physical store and coming home with a plastic bag under my arm than I do coming home from work and finding a package that I ordered a few days previously (although the occasional 5am drunk order can be an interesting surprise). Perhaps more importantly, seeing a reasonably priced search result on GEMM or Musicstack never matches the huge thrill of finding something you've been looking for for years in a forgotten dusty crate. I'd probably miss record shops more than I would online record shopping.

Rachel Verinder
21-03-2005, 06:48 AM
A bit of both makes for a balanced and pleasant world, I think.

francesco
21-03-2005, 07:22 AM
Now i mostly buy online, since you don't find 90% of what i search in records shop here in italy, but right now i have a shock because i realised of much i have spent in the last three months and i realized that it's easy to click and becoming stupidly poor. At least in a shop i see the money go away.....
.... but i love shopping and internet bores me but, alas, i often don't find what i search and come home and in few second order online.
Also, when there will be no more records shops neither books shops i will be a recluse at home, since that as always been a reason to move my ass out of the bed.

martin
21-03-2005, 07:37 AM
Problem with Rough Trade, their prices aren't that far off HMV / Virgin (you can get most of their Notting Hill stock around Hanway St for up to £4 or £5 cheaper per disc) and their ordering options are a bit limited.

Aquarius Records is a good online site for hearing decent-sized RealAudio clips, so you can know what's worth checking out, but they're ultimately hip-capitalist hippies and there's been loadsa problems with misplaced orders etc. Forced Exposure is miles superior. But I know what you mean, there's no way I'd have heard of half the things I've bought in the last 4 years, let alone have spotted them for sale, without the Net.

Diggedy Derek
21-03-2005, 08:52 AM
Possibly the biggest challenge to record retailers isn't just the net, but the way supermarkets have made everything so much more competitive. Blimey, they're cheap on CDs- £9.77 for a triple CD of "best of metal" for example. Now obviously this isn't the kind of thing Rough Trade sells, but if Tesco is selling cheap compilations, Amazon has to discount it's compilations too, and all of a sudden those Blood And Fire CDs that we know and love and used to buy in Rough Trade are 30% cheaper or so online. Profit margins are much, much, much thinner all over the market, and these small businesses have no margin for error whatsoever.

That letter box is absolutely hilarious.

john eden
21-03-2005, 08:55 AM
It may be that 2nd hand record shops in London are on their way out but it seems to me that elsewhere they are still doing ok, but maybe supplementing their income thru Gemm.

There ARE still a few hidden away London shops I frequent where you can pick up great stuff cheap that you'd never bid for on ebay because people will pay more for it that it is worth (in "real" rather than "market" terms if that makes sense - ok, it doesn't really!).

I hope they last, but I doubt they will - their only appeal is that they HAVEN'T been picked clean by staff or dealers... and they probably can't survive by me dropping by once a month!

Rachel Verinder
21-03-2005, 09:45 AM
The thing is - those triple CD "Best Love Songs Ever" compilations you get at Tescos for £9.77 with their plentiful tracks by Simply Red actually help subsidise Blood and Fire.

Chef Napalm
21-03-2005, 11:49 AM
A bit of both makes for a balanced and pleasant world, I think.
Amen! Online for variety (a la Woebot) and into the shop (shameless plug) (http://www.revolutionrecords.ca/) to shoot the shit and maybe pick up a couple of 12s that were popular 6 months ago, but are still good. I tend to think of it as admission to like-minded conversation.

dubplatestyle
21-03-2005, 12:16 PM
jeez matt, i'm trying to earn a living here

ambrose
21-03-2005, 04:28 PM
hey matt, it might be better to test the letterbox with recorss in a mailer, like, with 10 records stuffed into them. the edge of the record look precariously close to the sides of the box in yr pic. could lead to scrunched up sleeves :0

as for internet vs real shopping, i went to a real shop (phonica) for the first time in 3 months the other week. it gives you a rush to the blood seeingthe actual objects of yr affection, but after youve wiated 3 hrs for the snooty staff to notice you to listen to them and buy them, your ardour may have diminshed. Its good that you can listen properly to records in a shop*, but for me, the attitudes of staff in london record shops seriously make me not want to ever darken their doors.

plus, its exciting getting records thru the post, but then you have to be when it arrives otherwise its a lengthy truip to the post depot. matt, does that letterbox ahve auto-recorded delivery signing features?

*the number of tunes i have dismissed after hearing 30 sec clips on the internet, then subsequently hearing them in a club and spending months trying to get them after theyve all sold out :(

Woebot
22-03-2005, 07:44 AM
hey matt, it might be better to test the letterbox with recorss in a mailer, like, with 10 records stuffed into them. the edge of the record look precariously close to the sides of the box in yr pic. could lead to scrunched up sleeves :0

Its a right tight squeeze when they're in those cardboard cartons.


mixing it up

Who am I kidding? Nothing beats the thrill of wading through the racks, but the balance is slowly tipping in favour of the (intrinsically inferior) online experience.


cost

Yep this is one to watch. But without the kinetic near gravitional pull of the records themselves in shops (how difficult is it to walk out without buying a single one?) I reckon I may be able to control myself better (lol)

Woebot
21-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Nothing but a catalogue of disasters to report on this front.....

• After losing KMA's Cape Fear on an eBay bid I swiftly managed to loose Hyper On Experience's "Fun for the Family" too.

• I've waited a whole month to recieve a copy of Locked On Volume 3. Which looks like it's disappeared for good :-(

• The vinyl copy of Pyrolator's "Ausland" I ordered contained the wrong record and I've had to return it.

• To top it all off my new improved letterbox (which took me 4 carpenters to fit, I'd book them and they'd all drop out at the last minute, wasting valuable time innit) isn't quite wide enough to fit a standardly packed LP/12"

And I'm STILL waiting for my copy of Edu Lobo's "Missa Breva" cos the first copy I got from Gemm was (in spite of advertising itself to the contrary) scratched to fuck.

Back down the shops I guess!!!!

mms
21-04-2005, 08:16 PM
[QUOTE=Diggedy Derek]Possibly the biggest challenge to record retailers isn't just the net, but the way supermarkets have made everything so much more competitive. Blimey, they're cheap on CDs- £9.77 for a triple CD of "best of metal" for example. Now obviously this isn't the kind of thing Rough Trade sells, but if Tesco is selling cheap compilations, Amazon has to discount it's compilations too, and all of a sudden those Blood And Fire CDs that we know and love and used to buy in Rough Trade are 30% cheaper or so online. Profit margins are much, much, much thinner all over the market, and these small businesses have no margin for error whatsoever.

That letter box is absolutely hilarious.[/QUOTE


this is the general problem for small retailers, they just can't offer the kind of massive discounts that amazon can, but then it's important to get a customer base for the stuff they won't or can't really stock i reckon.
dvds are another story entirely, look at the places id prefer to buy dvds like forbidden planet and they have stuff for £20 that is 6 in hmv, that makes me feel a bit sad.

hint
21-04-2005, 09:04 PM
this is the general problem for small retailers, they just can't offer the kind of massive discounts that amazon can, but then it's important to get a customer base for the stuff they won't or can't really stock i reckon.
dvds are another story entirely, look at the places id prefer to buy dvds like forbidden planet and they have stuff for £20 that is 6 in hmv, that makes me feel a bit sad.

it also creates this cycle where the average punter assumes that singles should really cost £1.99 at all times, so any retailer charging more than that is considered to be ripping you off. when really they're making roughly the same profit per unit as a retailer who's getting heavily discounted stock from the distributor.

boomnoise
22-04-2005, 12:19 AM
across all markets worldwide distribution is becoming more and more of a key factor. in terms of providing people with the things they want the internet is far more efficient. but with moves by record companies to create far more satisfying objects with artwork and packaging i would say that record shops won't die for a while yet - the tactile element is key - you can't browse sleeve notes and check the quality of records online - there's nothing like slipping a 12 out of it's 12x12 card envelope and it's clear plastic protective covering and scanning it for scratches. it's a strange equation though. time vs availability vs value vs letterbox size. it will be a sad time when second hand shops don't exist. scarcity online is totally different to scarcity in the real world - values inflate and the real 'find' factor is comprised. online collecting makes things too easy. the thrill of the chase is part and parcel of record collecting. if you can find everything you want online then you may as well be buying mp3s for all intents and purposes. the very way an mp3 sucks life out of a record (should you argue that), a record bought online sucks life out of its very existence as an desirable object.

egg
22-04-2005, 01:13 AM
i dunno about that i got the hangable auto bulb eps from a faceless online trader but they were still most enjoyable to receive

they're jsut different experiences with different rewards and different complications

daferred gratification/postal excitement vs tactile inspection and spontaneity perhaps

:D

dominic
22-04-2005, 02:41 AM
it's more rewarding to search through crates at a store

and when you find a record you like, it's a "legitimate" score

whereas gemm feels like cheating

plus in stores you encounter lots of records that you never heard of -- they simply look interesting, so you put the record on the store's turntable

whereas w/ gemm you're pretty much limited to what you already know

and yet gemm creates temptation to order everything that you already know and are dying to have -- i.e., let's order 200 records through gemm today!!! -- just give in to the compulsion completely!!! -- max out the credit card!!! -- there ain't no limits as happens when this particular store on this particular corner hasn't got the record, or when no store in this city has the record -- all that matters is that some store or some person somewhere on this godforsaken earth has the record and is willing to sell

plus, w/ gemm there are serious shipping costs involved if the store that has the record is on the other side of the altantic

so i have "moral" issues with gemm

nonetheless i have a shopping cart on gemm that is crammed full with records

i've yet to order the records -- but the buying binge, when it finally happens (and it will), is gonna be murder premeditated

mms
22-04-2005, 08:46 AM
it's more rewarding to search through crates at a store

and when you find a record you like, it's a "legitimate" score

whereas gemm feels like cheating

plus in stores you encounter lots of records that you never heard of -- they simply look interesting, so you put the record on the store's turntable

whereas w/ gemm you're pretty much limited to what you already know

and yet gemm creates temptation to order everything that you already know and are dying to have -- i.e., let's order 200 records through gemm today!!! -- just give in to the compulsion completely!!! -- max out the credit card!!! -- there ain't no limits as happens when this particular store on this particular corner hasn't got the record, or when no store in this city has the record -- all that matters is that some store or some person somewhere on this godforsaken earth has the record and is willing to sell

plus, w/ gemm there are serious shipping costs involved if the store that has the record is on the other side of the altantic

so i have "moral" issues with gemm

nonetheless i have a shopping cart on gemm that is crammed full with records

i've yet to order the records -- but the buying binge, when it finally happens (and it will), is gonna be murder premeditated


gemm is a service that is good as an idea but rubbish in practice,
alot of it is deeply overpriced, even more expensive than london shops for somethings!
also a lot of the time it's not updated so you order something to find its not there !

mms
22-04-2005, 09:13 AM
I've been looking for this lp for twenty years and some weeks ago i finnally found and bought it on ebay. I can assure you that that feels pretty good, i for one am very happy with the internet (as many people i think will be who don't have the privilige of living in london)

(I still buy lots in the shops as well though, they're two different channels with their own right of existence)

i was outbid on one of my most wanted records by a dollar cos i was at work, there are pitfalls

egg
22-04-2005, 12:56 PM
i was outbid on one of my most wanted records by a dollar
wossat then?

DigitalDjigit
22-04-2005, 07:17 PM
I've bought most of my records off Ebay and I never ever had a problem. I never order from across the Atlantic, the shipping is too high. I don't pay more than $5 a record (unless it is something I really really want and even then no more than $10). Since you never know what is going to show up it is very much like going to a regular store. Sometimes you get a steal and then you feel just as chuffed as regular shopping. In addition you do not get your hands dirty and your knees don't hurt from squatting for hours. I don't even look at Gemm, it's ridiculously overpriced (except my store, plug plug: http://jackthebox.gemm.com )

I still enjoy shopping in stores, just came back from New York with a few nice $3 finds.

redcrescent
24-04-2005, 09:24 PM
So by buying rare stuff cheap in shops, you are actually helping them to dissappear
But is it your fault the shopkeeper doesn't know his onions? You're not really going to tell him that €2 record is worth fifty, are you? You'll pay two and then do backflips out the shop.


In addition you do not get your hands dirty and your knees don't hurt from squatting for hours.
Don't forget the bad back, sore index and middle fingers and dust-induced asthma. But it makes you feel like a champion.

boomnoise OTM.

francesco
17-05-2007, 07:51 PM
Reading the "Bring the Noise" is sometimes giving me hints on something, the love for the record as a cultural artifact, that seem to be long gone today. History. Like records shops. Those shops were you meet (sometimes nerdy) people who love as you records, who were also meeting point, were behind the counter were not bored and ignorant and indifferent clerks, but music enthusiast like you who loved to talk about new and old music.
Now one, maybe THE, place for this in Italy was DISFUNZIONI MUSICALI in Rome. A shop that was like the Rough Trade for Italy (in the good and in the bad, but the bad is forgotten for today). Now I'm back in Italy for vacation and when in Rome an afternoon at this shop is a mandatory pleasure. So came as a shock today that the shop has closed. And lesser big music shops too, in Milan and Rome. OK. Sign'o'Times. Record Shops Armageddon. History. Maybe someone here can understand why this, insignificant in the run of this universe, is significant for me.

Blame downloading? Yes, sure, but? Blame Amazon? Yes but no, but Amazon and the like are fantastic, especially if you don't live in big cities, or live in forgotten by god countries of the world, and anyway is not piracy. No, that is: cultural artifacts is not COOL. Culture in general is not COOL, seems (i think and live for the contrary, actually, culture for me is COOL and i try to teach this first in my classes). Then Italy is becoming more third world economically, people have little money and records are becoming a LUXURY for most people. You can't blame in Sud America if people buy piracy or download, there is no other choice (and anyway, how much money goes to the artist and how much to pay the cocaine for major record company executives? ok, for the little labels i love this is anyway hell).

Nothing here in my post that hasn't be discussed here and anywhere better and lightly. Goodbye Records Culture. Hello Internet Muzak.

Jaie Miller
18-05-2007, 11:47 AM
I object.

Options...Imagine the day when there are no more Record shops....none. Play John Lennon, if you must, download it. I would be most dissapointed if this we're to happen, and, if it we're to happen what would replace them??

I like going to clothes shops and trying on a T-shirt every now and again, maybe some jeans. Doesn't mean that I won't press a button and awaken to the product at my doorstep, coz I think dats fun too!! And no doubt the need to dress and stay fresh is much more important than to buy a record. Greensleeves being something thats on my list for purchase.

How about going to your local record shop, and ordering some vinyls to your home, a T-shirt, a computer, a chair, and then setting up your own online record store....That would be fun, no?

There's a new place that's a Record shop and an Internet Cafe, that also sells clothes and DVD's too, it's called Rebel-Music Ltd I set it up with my brother so we could continue on in the spirit of Hip Hop (music culture) which I feel record shoping is a part of. There is a small section for second hand Cds, and records, nothing over board, and people are welcome to come and bring their un-wanted albeit rather good pieces in if they please. We try and keep our DVDs to a rarity even though it seems like the Majors are all over anything new, and anything different, which is difficult, because people like that familar taste like Mc D's.(I'm convinced Mac Donald's doesnt taste nice, just familar) We also try and get as much independent stuff in too. And we need help.

I very much like that there are options for people and pray that record shops shall never all close down, unless there is something funner awaiting and they are taking up all the space, in which case hurry up and close down, so I may too become part of this fun.

I'll admit...American prices are ridiculusly fun to hear about, I can't wait to get out there and do some record shopping, and all the rest.

gumdrops
18-05-2007, 11:56 AM
it would be nice if so many record shop staff werent so grumpy, unhelpfully sneering and up their own arse...

Martin Dust
18-05-2007, 12:01 PM
it would be nice if so many record shop staff werent so grumpy, unhelpfully sneering and up their own arse...

Why is that? When does the dream job become the least client facing biz in the world?

gumdrops
18-05-2007, 12:05 PM
i dont know but its an almost universal trait i find (or found) in most record shops i used to go to from tiny specialist places in essex through to the west end shops like bongo, reckless and even record and tape exchange sometimes. once you go often, they usually warm up a bit but most of the time its like its not enough youre giving them your business, you have to (happily?) endure being treated like an idiot for the privilege of being served by such knowledgeable people. sort of like certain restaurants maybe where the waiters are cunts, the food is overpriced etc but its so elite and prestigious you dont mind and even enjoy it. part of the experience or something.

Jaie Miller
18-05-2007, 12:22 PM
it would be nice if so many record shop staff werent so grumpy, unhelpfully sneering and up their own arse...

I object!

I much enjoy the attitude of what few record shop workers I've come into contact with. I make it my duty to emulate their attitudes and directions.

IdleRich
18-05-2007, 12:42 PM
"There's a new place that's a Record shop and an Internet Cafe, that also sells clothes and DVD's too, it's called Rebel-Music Ltd I set it up with my brother so we could continue on in the spirit of Hip Hop (music culture) which I feel record shoping is a part of. There is a small section for second hand Cds, and records, nothing over board, and people are welcome to come and bring their un-wanted albeit rather good pieces in if they please. We try and keep our DVDs to a rarity even though it seems like the Majors are all over anything new"
Sounds good, where is it then?

Jaie Miller
18-05-2007, 12:59 PM
Thanks :)

310c Green Lanes
Palmers Green
London
N13 5TT

www.rebel-music.com
www.myspace.com/rebelmusicinc

......

Guybrush
18-05-2007, 01:33 PM
In recent days, I have been thinking about how cities will look like in the future when most of the shops that occupy the city-landscape today have moved their business elsewhere or gone bankrupt. In my thoughts, they become either dreary and inhospitable, the city as a mere compound of dwelling-houses and office blocks, or some new, unforeseen movement arises, new communal activities vivifying the abandoned shopping streets. Anyway, I think it has been obvious for a while that retail stores are on their way out. Some have a rougher time than others, but the general tendency is there. More than anything, I think this is explained by a generational shift in attitudes towards over-the-counter shopping, which young people find less fruitful than older people do—mainly because the Internet offers such a wealth of choices in comparison.

Poisonous Dart
18-05-2007, 02:28 PM
I'm actually going to do a piece on this for my blog on Monday called "The Last Days Of The Record Store" about my experiences working for Tower Records and some other Boston chains from 1998-2001. One.

IdleRich
18-05-2007, 04:57 PM
"Thanks
310c Green Lanes
Palmers Green
London
N13 5TT
www.rebel-music.com
www.myspace.com/rebelmusicinc"
Good news to see one opening for a change, I'll check the website.

Jaie Miller
18-05-2007, 05:16 PM
I'm actually going to do a piece on this for my blog on Monday called "The Last Days Of The Record Store" about my experiences working for Tower Records and some other Boston chains from 1998-2001. One.

Wow. Cool, I respect your blog, from what I've seen of it. And Guybrush:

"they become either dreary and inhospitable, the city as a mere compound of dwelling-houses and office blocks, or some new, unforeseen movement arises, new communal activities vivifying the abandoned shopping streets"

^
That was like the perfect piece of poetry. :)

Agreed to about the young people finding over the counter activity less fruitful. People walk in to the shop sometimes like...'what is there to do?'

:)

Jaie Miller
18-05-2007, 06:34 PM
I'm thinking in the event of a closure, we'll turn the space into a paint warehouse, (don't bite this idea please) What we'll do is create a space where any mannor of being, earthling or otherwise can come a enjoy a splash of painting, there shall be all white walls and buckets of paint, and people can come and hurls huge buckets of paint on the walls, and then create art. The walls will have sprinklers at the top which will wash off the paint from the walls only after a great digital camera takes a photo of the created art, and thus saves it onto a computer for digital enhancement or printing.

Other options include a scream warehouse, (all soundproofed) where people come and SCREAM at the top of their lungs!!! and let out years of tension and past aggressions. Thus creating a safer and less repressive socitety, one that is open to communication and not the avoidance of so calle true thoughts...orsmth

Someone told me about a place where each morning there is a gathering where people laugh,
I thought that was quite nice...

..........I'm crazy.....Back to the shop....

Rebel-Music Ltd was funded by the Princes Trust and has hopes of E-commerce activity soon.

Guybrush
18-05-2007, 07:23 PM
I'm thinking in the event of a closure, we'll turn the space into a paint warehouse, (don't bite this idea please) What we'll do is create a space where any mannor of being, earthling or otherwise can come a enjoy a splash of painting, there shall be all white walls and buckets of paint, and people can come and hurls huge buckets of paint on the walls, and then create art. The walls will have sprinklers at the top which will wash off the paint from the walls only after a great digital camera takes a photo of the created art, and thus saves it onto a computer for digital enhancement or printing.

Other options include a scream warehouse, (all soundproofed) where people come and SCREAM at the top of their lungs!!! and let out years of tension and past aggressions. Thus creating a safer and less repressive socitety, one that is open to communication and not the avoidance of so calle true thoughts...orsmth

Someone told me about a place where each morning there is a gathering where people laugh,
I thought that was quite nice...

Sounds great!

Another positive aspect of people increasingly using the Internet for their consumptive needs is that I hope it will lead to human interactions’ being centred less around shopping and more around ... interactions.

U-Basstard
21-05-2007, 01:37 PM
R.I.P Pelicanneck

Jaie Miller
21-05-2007, 01:58 PM
R.I.P Pelicanneck

?? What does this mean??

crackerjack
21-05-2007, 02:02 PM
?? What does this mean??

Pelican Neck is (or presumably now was) a shop in Manchester, the non-cyber version of Boomkat.

Jaie Miller
21-05-2007, 02:05 PM
I see, thanks....

I did google them after I asked, which is a terrible trait, and saw. I like their DVDs.

labrat
22-05-2007, 12:21 PM
R.I.P Pelicanneck

seconded..went in yesterday afternoon (well, tried to) ...gone-horrible

Dusty
22-05-2007, 12:26 PM
I'm confused, surely if anyone is profiting out of music outside of Amazon it must be Boomkat. Have they closed their real doors in order to focus on the virtual?

big satan
24-05-2007, 09:08 PM
rough trade is closing their covent garden shop and opening an apparently huge new place near brick, it's apparently going to be the biggest independent record shop in europe or something.

3underscore
22-06-2007, 02:01 PM
The rumour mill is in overdrive that there is either a huge restructure involving shop closures, or the complete end of Fopp.

All shops seem to be closed for stocktaking today. It seems buying a chain that itself went bust (MusicZone) may not have helped them.

No confirm on this, but lots of talk.

don_quixote
23-06-2007, 11:24 AM
Music, books and DVD retailer Fopp has told publishers to cease supplying it with book stock. In an email sent to about 20 publishers and book suppliers today (14th June), the retailer instructed them to cancel any orders for new and backlist titles. It blamed "unforseen circumstances" for the cancellation. However, a Fopp spokesman told The Bookseller that it was a temporary measure as the chain moved warehouses.

The email, sent to publishers on behalf of book manager Sarah Callaghan, stated: "It is with regret that I need to instruct you to immediately cancel any dues you have recorded for Fopp; including new titles we have placed pre-orders for prior to publication and any backlist range replenishments." Publishers contacted by The Bookseller expressed surprise at the development.

The Fopp spokesman stated: "We manage nearly all of our books supply via a warehouse in Bristol. We are moving this warehouse function to new and much larger warehouse facility in Stockport. During this period of transition we don't want any new stock arriving at either of the warehouses. Therefore, our book buyer, has merely cancelled outstanding orders until they are required and has already contacted her suppliers to explain the situation."

Fopp celebrated its 25th anniversary as an independent retailer last year, after starting life as a market stall in Glasgow. It operates 46 stores across the UK. In February, it bought the 67 stores owned by rival retailer Music Zone after the chain went into administration.

surely related to warehouse moving? maybe not

Don Rosco
23-06-2007, 11:59 AM
I really, really, really hate buying records on the internet.

subvert47
23-06-2007, 04:17 PM
Rapidly coming to the conclusion that the only place to buy records is online.

Obviously I'm mainly talking about second-hand records

yes — back cataloguing — it's hard to make serious finds in the secondhand bins nowadays :(

new vinyl is still worth getting from real shops, since shipping means it's no cheaper buying it online

Woebot
25-06-2007, 08:43 AM
had an interesting happen at the weekend.

one shop i used to visit, flashback on the essex road in islington, always had really crap records.

i went there on saturday and they wicked bad stuff.

i asked the guy behind the counter and he said "i know !i know!" apparently it's because all the good shops have been shut down, now they're suddenly getting vastly-improved stock....

shrugs.

3underscore
25-06-2007, 09:00 AM
Don

That appears that was the first part of a very bad turn of events for Fopp - and more apparent that it was an excuse to cut an unnecessary (non-core) cashflow drain.

Friday every store closed to stocktake. Saturday they were only taking cash in stores. Sunday there was an article in the Sunday Times Business section saying "we aren't going into administration" from their CEO, defending the MusicZone purchase and saying how they funded it on floating debt, so have experienced a bigger cash squeeze as rates have gone up (stupid business decision).

Apparently they have huge supplier problems and have been known not to carry new releases, although this is all believed to be from the MZ purchase, suggesting the original Fopp chain is sound but may be brought down by acquiring a firm that had already failed.

STN
29-06-2007, 03:23 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6252300.stm

fopp seems to have gone under.

Anderai
29-06-2007, 04:54 PM
We've had a Music Zone in Inverness lying empty for months now and I was wondering when Fopp would be taking over....oh well, that leaves HMV and er...the net then!

Diggedy Derek
30-06-2007, 04:02 PM
I won't be shedding a whole lot of tears for FOPP. It was good for cheap back catalogue, but for new releases it was pretty awful, and artists didn't get a whole lot of money from them. Sure they were "independent", but to what end? They were still simply about shifting units.

If the future is less independent shops but ones more focused on niche areas (both in store and online), I don't know if that's a bad thing really.

mms
30-06-2007, 04:19 PM
well fopp were responsible in alot of ways for killing off the other indie stores by undercutting them, i think they basically bought up lots of old stock from warehouses all over and buying and selling cheap, i think they often cut a few corners legally.
Their undoing was buying those cursed stores, i never really liked fopp though, i don't think they were really an independent shop in that you couldn't really walk in and get a solid recommendation from someone that worked in there, and they more or less pushed niche things that had been overpressed, working off a kind of hip knowledge of back catalogue.

wonk_vitesse
30-06-2007, 05:44 PM
rough trade is closing their covent garden shop and opening an apparently huge new place near brick, it's apparently going to be the biggest independent record shop in europe or something.

I'm really looking forward to this bold venture, it's in the right place and if it's as good as they say will be an excellent place to visit. But.....there's so much bad news around for music retailers you can't help but feel that it has a 50/50 chance of success.

mms
30-06-2007, 09:32 PM
I'm really looking forward to this bold venture, it's in the right place and if it's as good as they say will be an excellent place to visit. But.....there's so much bad news around for music retailers you can't help but feel that it has a 50/50 chance of success.

well there is still a market for physical music etc at the moment, and there is potentially a gap in the market, although rough trade seem to have fallen off a bit as a shop, i haven't been in there for ages and i tend to go physical record shops about once or twice a month. It seems in the indie stakes compared to a shop like pure groove in archway, they're looking a bit out of touch

.

DannyL
01-07-2007, 09:22 AM
The new Rough Trade shop is on Drapers Wharf, which is probably the best location round there - it's the little street with the trendy trainer shop (Gloria's) and the Big Chill Bar. I hope it's a big success - from the outside it looks like they have a ton of floorspace.