Yes, that much is clear.
Jeremy Corbyn
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Yes, that much is clear.
sadmanbarty
Well-known member
I don't know, but that might be to do with the fact that while Obama was still in office, these offences were still taking surrounding villages and other less populated areas, they hadn't yet reached the more densely populated city centres.
craner
Beast of Burden
This is a pretty good classical Dissensus dust-up, but doesn't quite match the days when Padraig was peddling articles that claimed the Rwandan genocide was a Western Imperialist hoax and digging up "evidence" to prove that I was a sinister and well paid underground neoconservative mole.
droid
Well-known member
Danny, you would benefit from some close reading. Once again you have misquoted me. I said that the the conflict in Syria was complex and I couldn't with good faith know exactly what was going on wrt the conflict as a whole.
Secondly, I have repeatedly made the point that there are huge problems with the propaganda models of Western media and how that dovetails with Western military, political and strategic aims, not to mention the uncritical use of information and propaganda from anti-Assad (democratic or otherwise) resistance and their exploitation of this tendency. Libya is a perfect example as to why testimony from rebel forces should be rigorously interrogated - one of many in fact.
In this context it is perfectly reasonable to demand concrete evidence before engaging in military strikes.
I understand where youre coming from and I agree that the situation in Syria is appalling, tragic and criminal, and that Assad and the Russians are primarily culpable, but you forget that there are decades of evidence and history to draw on when it comes to Western intervention, almost 20 years alone since Blair's 'new humanitarianism' and it is... instructive to say the least.
Let's cut to the quick. What do you think happened in Khan Sheikhoun on 4th April?
droid
Well-known member
lol, I have literally not said anything there I had not already said you surfing dullard.
droid
Well-known member
It seems in all probability that it was a Syrian govt attack. I dont attach a huge amount of credibility to Western media reports, but the French intelligence report is probably the most credible evidence Ive seen. I also think its plausible that it was a Syrian attack by forces not under direct control of the govt.
However, there are still many questions to be answered and I could see why there was considerable doubt at the time seeing as it makes absolutely NO sense for Assad or Putin to use chemical weapons against that target at that time, so there is a strong element of Cui Bono and the calls for investigation at the time seem perfectly warranted.
droid
Well-known member
craner
Beast of Burden
I mean I get the point and know what you mean, but it does not disqualify us from having opinions about these countries. But as Droid has wisely pointed out, the tone of authority that polemical arguments tend to lead to should actually be heavily qualified. We are all relying on various second hand sources which we filter to our own mindset. We should be upfront about who we are quoting and why. I think me and Droid always have been, but I guess I don't use as many raw quotes as Droid when I write.
To me, and many others who've followed Corbyn's (lack of) pronouncements on Syria, it comes over as providing cover for Assad and Putin. I posted a link upthread which gives a fuller context.
I'm no expert on the day to day back and forth of the conflict but I suspect it does "make sense" in in the context of a horrendous war - there was a suprise offensive launched by rebels in Hama in 2017 and the attack can be seen as retailatory. Khan Sheikhoun is one of the first towns over the border controlled by the rebels.