sadmanbarty
Well-known member
luka in a white suit with padraig at 55 seconds in.
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All good music comes from religion
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luka in a white suit with padraig at 55 seconds in.
CrowleyHead
Well-known member
Making God(s) into creations of the imaginations of humans is ultimately a pessimism and a disregard to those who are in possession of the ability (and chose) to find faith in that imagery, and I'm saying this as someone who's incredibly spiritually divorced and thus sort of align myself into Atheism less as a stance. There is a contemptuousness in Atheism because you cannot or refuse do have that sense of faith/trust and relinquish control to an 'unknown'. Padraig, without intending this as a jab at you, I think Luka objects to what you may see as rationalism or practicality because it feels greatly reductive to the mindset and activity of belief. It's something while I'm more aligned to I find a distaste for as I get older because it often lines into deflections with irony, placing your trust instead in 'smarter men who see through the mystique' or a self-assuredness that ignores the things that are inherently beyond our perception. This isn't to say you yourself intend or even demonstrate these attributes, but it underlines and undermines things with a certain dimension of pessimism that perhaps works against the spirit of the conversation.
Anyway, re: the blissblogger analogies on Gospel, I find them to be wholly inaccurate because Gospel is where 90% of the moments of Soul of worth are grafted from and while the structure is much more orthodox, it's about the failure to be contained within the orthodoxy. There's also the element of the fact that listening to old gospel recordings, which are done for the sake of documentation and not the actual experience of sermon/testimonial are NOT going to do the task of the music when made in the moment of testimonial and communal experience. Gospel isn't always an inherently religious music the way Luka describes, but it has Terms to commit to and by refusing to commit to them you miss the point entirely. It's like that thing where I believe it was Stockhausen was forced to listen to a bunch of IDM records and kept complaining about the 'post-African repetitive percussion', failing to consider that he needs to think of it less as compositional music the way he'd make but as body music. You ignore the terms of engagement you're almost bound to miss the point.
Anyway, re: the blissblogger analogies on Gospel, I find them to be wholly inaccurate because Gospel is where 90% of the moments of Soul of worth are grafted from and while the structure is much more orthodox, it's about the failure to be contained within the orthodoxy. There's also the element of the fact that listening to old gospel recordings, which are done for the sake of documentation and not the actual experience of sermon/testimonial are NOT going to do the task of the music when made in the moment of testimonial and communal experience. Gospel isn't always an inherently religious music the way Luka describes, but it has Terms to commit to and by refusing to commit to them you miss the point entirely. It's like that thing where I believe it was Stockhausen was forced to listen to a bunch of IDM records and kept complaining about the 'post-African repetitive percussion', failing to consider that he needs to think of it less as compositional music the way he'd make but as body music. You ignore the terms of engagement you're almost bound to miss the point.
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droid
Well-known member
This is a topic that requires a certain degree of tact, patience and openness in order for a constructive discussion to take place. God forbid that there may be disagreements in an area that's been a subject of contention for millennia.
Gospel is a funny one. Hugely influential in that it permeates so much black music - even the blues which is a kind of anti-gospel but is impossible to separate from faith in the same way that satanism implies the existence of god. Christ to Gangster in one magical movement:
By the by - Padraig, have you ever visited Rothko's chapel?
Gospel is a funny one. Hugely influential in that it permeates so much black music - even the blues which is a kind of anti-gospel but is impossible to separate from faith in the same way that satanism implies the existence of god. Christ to Gangster in one magical movement:
By the by - Padraig, have you ever visited Rothko's chapel?
How is it reductionist? historically Yahweh was one of the Gods during the biblical times, not the only god.
luka
Well-known member
What's that got to do with anything?
Well nah, it's more like...
With the advent of writing and the final consummation of the separation of head from hand and the ability to document a tribe or a clan outside the old forms of collective mnemonics, the gods themselves become used to justify sedentarism. If you look at old turkic nomadic religion before the conversion to islam you can see the idea of tengri (or tanri) is basically a very non-orthodox, abstract thing more analogous to totality in Hegel or whatever.
Which brings me back to my point again, there was no Islam in Muhammad's time. there was being a hanif, submitting to the one god, and that is why abraham and Moses were called Muslims in the qu'ran, but there was no islam as an institution. I'm not sure if created in imagination is the right word but neither is god or gods preserved in aspic. and organised religion is very good at giving us that comforting opiate illusion.
anger or desire can be planned and determined though.
In that sense Gods are inventions imo. otherwise in a fully non-religious society (for atheism is just another religion imo) the idea of god will become moot because we won't be alienated from our interactions with everyone else and the conscious species.
It's more correct to say God is a human inscribed concept.
In that sense Gods are inventions imo. otherwise in a fully non-religious society (for atheism is just another religion imo) the idea of god will become moot because we won't be alienated from our interactions with everyone else and the conscious species.
It's more correct to say God is a human inscribed concept.
luka
Well-known member
What I am suggesting is that the gods have an underlying reality. The concept is not woven from thin air but has always been a marker for something real. This is what Pound meant when he said the gods are eternal states of mind. Something encountered and named not something invented wholesale.
Note that this does not imply transcendence.
Note that this does not imply transcendence.
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I mean isn't that what music is right? that search for the higher totality which is an abstract.
You feel it in pharoah sanders' best music. it's not like going to the masjid and prostrating yourself because you're expected to. if that's a search for God then yeah i would agree with you that's reductive. But I don't think that's what God means to most people. God is a structuring concept, but totality by its very nature does not require structure...
You feel it in pharoah sanders' best music. it's not like going to the masjid and prostrating yourself because you're expected to. if that's a search for God then yeah i would agree with you that's reductive. But I don't think that's what God means to most people. God is a structuring concept, but totality by its very nature does not require structure...