MATT MAson
BROADSIDE
Thank you sir. I'm not registered there but feel free to quote me on that.
Dubstep is revolting
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mistersloane
heavy heavy monster sound
"We have been working towards setting this up for months now and we
will be making sure that any re-hosting of our content gets stopped
ASAP. We have the governing copyright protection agencies to help us
control this (as we have the relevant licenses set up already)"
Deapoh should publish the correspondence in full for people to see, email by email. I don't see how Rinse / Ammunition at this current point in their legal status can do this, and I doubt very much they've got the money to be able to take a case and lose. I'd also like to see copies of contracts that Rinse FM DJs have to sign, if there are any. And while that happens, I think a strike both by DJs and listeners is in order. The audience runs tings, not the business. People should really bear that in mind.
will be making sure that any re-hosting of our content gets stopped
ASAP. We have the governing copyright protection agencies to help us
control this (as we have the relevant licenses set up already)"
Deapoh should publish the correspondence in full for people to see, email by email. I don't see how Rinse / Ammunition at this current point in their legal status can do this, and I doubt very much they've got the money to be able to take a case and lose. I'd also like to see copies of contracts that Rinse FM DJs have to sign, if there are any. And while that happens, I think a strike both by DJs and listeners is in order. The audience runs tings, not the business. People should really bear that in mind.
this is really bad old school nasty music industry practice which totally grates next to the positive way that people like deadpoh and other people in dubstep have managed and built the scene up. It's absolutely in conflict with the way that music, artists and technology should be dealt with in the 2007.
If djs on rinse want to contribute to barefiles they should do it under different circumstances without the association of rinse. I have always have the feeling that there was a certain amount of exploitation going on from ammunition, they should concentrate on putting out good records as i don't hear them.
It's especially dumb in that what barefiles are essentially doing in business terms is giving ammunition free advertising at their own expense alongside other labels and artists at a one stop site.
It makes me think now that the 'dubstep scene is mainly run by ammunition productions' statement in the nme t'other week wasn't just a misunderstanding.
If djs on rinse want to contribute to barefiles they should do it under different circumstances without the association of rinse. I have always have the feeling that there was a certain amount of exploitation going on from ammunition, they should concentrate on putting out good records as i don't hear them.
It's especially dumb in that what barefiles are essentially doing in business terms is giving ammunition free advertising at their own expense alongside other labels and artists at a one stop site.
It makes me think now that the 'dubstep scene is mainly run by ammunition productions' statement in the nme t'other week wasn't just a misunderstanding.
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Martin Dust
Techno Zen Master
Oh dear me...
bruno
est malade
i remember one had to sign up to the rinse forum, then grovel or do something special to win the heart of someone to be given access to sets. they had a few sets on the main page, the only recent one a broken link. presumably they will service their listeners better this time around.
this is shitty. for a lot of people barefiles was the only way to keep up to date with the music, and actually hear full sets that they either couldnt catch at the right time or just wouldnt be able to otherwise due to living out of london. the rinse stream is mostly shit, lets remember. either way, this is self defeating for the whole scene. its not like dubstep people only download full sets and dont buy the records when they get released. ammunition seem to want to become the microsoft of dubstep.
Agree totally with all thats been said: this is pure bullshit! Technically I guess even if they are broadcasting illegally in some format (as they do), if they get the DJs to sign away their copyright (or assign it to Ammunition/Rinse whoever) then they DO have the legal right to do this. It just doesn't make good business sense (perhaps they will do their own equivalent of barefiles archives as they argue, but even so, to piss off a lot of people in the scene speaks of a horrible arrogance, especially if as pointed out above the output of all their various arms is slightly dropping off at the moment). The monopolistic position of Ammunition has been argued over before, but this kind of behaviour demonstrates that in no way should it be allowed to continue, and that it is no way benevolent! The only solution being perhaps a temporary boycott/encouragement of alternative nights and record labels?
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
I don't think this is going to deliver real business benefits for Ammunition and Tempa. I think it's unwise, and I think Ammunition / Tempa are running risks they do not need to run in terms of alienating their core market.
It's also the first major breach of the love vibes that have been so integral to the dubstep scene, and it's appalling.
It's also the first major breach of the love vibes that have been so integral to the dubstep scene, and it's appalling.
the other thing i wonder about is what all these contracts the artists and djs etc signed are, contract terms and exclusivity etc are, whether these things were done with the advice of an independent lawyer.This seems to have opened a worrying can o' worms. most artists are very naive and simply want to put out tracks and make money or dj and develop their name and career, so without solid advice they could be likely to sign anything. i hope they haven't and i wish them all the best of luck though, but i dont think i'd like to be one of those guys who signed over to rinse of tempa.
DigitalDjigit
Honky Tonk Woman
Do you mean revolting like "disgusting" or "rebelling"?
lol
sorry guys but I knew this was gonna happen sooner or later...the crippling leglocks that have been happening to Grime were always gonna take place within Dubstep but just in different ways...they all linked musical scenes after all...I laugh cos some ppl were acting like Dubstep was a cut above and invincible...which it ain't
its sickening that this is happening at such a low level though...this is the underground right? damn...crabs in a barrel
what are that Sarah's lady's links to Defected House?
hope someone does something to stop this s***
sorry guys but I knew this was gonna happen sooner or later...the crippling leglocks that have been happening to Grime were always gonna take place within Dubstep but just in different ways...they all linked musical scenes after all...I laugh cos some ppl were acting like Dubstep was a cut above and invincible...which it ain't
its sickening that this is happening at such a low level though...this is the underground right? damn...crabs in a barrel
what are that Sarah's lady's links to Defected House?
hope someone does something to stop this s***
ChineseArithmetic
It is what it is
Aren't radio stations supposed to pay some kind of composers royalties on music they play? Presumably as a pirate station they're not doing that.
That's because they are a pirate radio station. Performance royalties are determined and distributed by a third party that typically has some kind of government affiliation, so I can't see it being likely them providing this service for illegal radio stations.
OK. I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.
While it seems to me that perhaps Sarah and Geeneus might have some questionable ideas with this apparent "monopolization" that seems to be their business model, I don't really see the outrage here.
Over on the dubstep forum everyone is crying corporate bloody murder and grieving over how art and business can never co-exist, but from my point of few, in concept, what has just happened could be seen as reasonable.
Deapoh, as he says, puts all this time and work expecting nothing back into Barefiles. And yes, as a result of Barefiles he helped attract a lot of attention to the dubstep scene, and almost certainly made some of Ammunitions businesses (FWD, Tempa, et al) some money.
Weren't RINSE giving Deapoh the option to sell Barefiles first though? They didn't just tell him right off the bat that he needed to cease and desist. With their budget would it not have possibly become a better service with no broken downloads, and perhaps a bigger selection? Why did Deapoh want to continue spending money on something for nothing? And though Rinse IS a pirate radio station, do they not have the right to regulate and improve the service of a website consisting of radio rips of THEIR station. Remember: they offered to PAY Deapoh first, and he refused for some reason.
What I don't understand is the massive outrage based on very little actual facts, Deapoh's mob-stirring speeches and some knee-jerk anti-business reactions.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I think everyone is jumping to conclusions extremely fast. I suppose it all comes down to how much they offered Deeps.
While it seems to me that perhaps Sarah and Geeneus might have some questionable ideas with this apparent "monopolization" that seems to be their business model, I don't really see the outrage here.
Over on the dubstep forum everyone is crying corporate bloody murder and grieving over how art and business can never co-exist, but from my point of few, in concept, what has just happened could be seen as reasonable.
Deapoh, as he says, puts all this time and work expecting nothing back into Barefiles. And yes, as a result of Barefiles he helped attract a lot of attention to the dubstep scene, and almost certainly made some of Ammunitions businesses (FWD, Tempa, et al) some money.
Weren't RINSE giving Deapoh the option to sell Barefiles first though? They didn't just tell him right off the bat that he needed to cease and desist. With their budget would it not have possibly become a better service with no broken downloads, and perhaps a bigger selection? Why did Deapoh want to continue spending money on something for nothing? And though Rinse IS a pirate radio station, do they not have the right to regulate and improve the service of a website consisting of radio rips of THEIR station. Remember: they offered to PAY Deapoh first, and he refused for some reason.
What I don't understand is the massive outrage based on very little actual facts, Deapoh's mob-stirring speeches and some knee-jerk anti-business reactions.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I think everyone is jumping to conclusions extremely fast. I suppose it all comes down to how much they offered Deeps.
i agree with sick. if i was running barefiles and the money was offered was good, i would have walked.
running a server is work, especially if its your first time, but if you got any rep or were able to launch a decent record lable off of it, then i would be pretty content.
also, i think ammo's behind the scenes, in the shadows, lack of online presence, is really hurting them as well...sarah and gee have never posted a word of support or opinion on anything, and i think its really hurt them.
running a server is work, especially if its your first time, but if you got any rep or were able to launch a decent record lable off of it, then i would be pretty content.
also, i think ammo's behind the scenes, in the shadows, lack of online presence, is really hurting them as well...sarah and gee have never posted a word of support or opinion on anything, and i think its really hurt them.
MATT MAson
BROADSIDE
My comments were not just based on this event. There are a lot of suspect people coaxing and bullying lawyer-less artists into bad decisions, and this has been going on since time began in the music industry I know, and I think airing it out like this is a really positive thing.
There are hundreds of pages on this board of people talking about what's wrong with the grime scene and how to fix it, I think this type of attitude and approach coming from companies like Ammunition, one of the few organised commercial entities within the grime and dubstep scenes, is one of the major reasons artists aren't doing as well as they should.
I know first hand how hard it is to scratch a living this way, so I understand people being protective of the brands and content they have created, but the fact of the matter is in this instance, Rinse are trying to claim ownership of something they don't legally own. That is a fact. And that's not cool.
There are hundreds of pages on this board of people talking about what's wrong with the grime scene and how to fix it, I think this type of attitude and approach coming from companies like Ammunition, one of the few organised commercial entities within the grime and dubstep scenes, is one of the major reasons artists aren't doing as well as they should.
I know first hand how hard it is to scratch a living this way, so I understand people being protective of the brands and content they have created, but the fact of the matter is in this instance, Rinse are trying to claim ownership of something they don't legally own. That is a fact. And that's not cool.
You forget Bare-files isn't only about hosting radio-shows anymore. There is the label Bare-dubs as well. Plus he mentioned that maybe in the future he might start Bare-Fm. It seems to me that Deapoh is ambitious enough to create a wider array of services with the 'Bare'-stamp of approval. Such dreams don't get bought.
What I don't get, is why on earth Ammo&co would want to organise the hosting of their radiosets, if they can have both organisation and bandwidth arranged by someone else for free? If they think they can charge people for recorded radio-sets, they might wanna think again.
Grievous Angel
Beast of Burden
Charging for podcasts is exactly what they would like to do.
And good luck to them! It's a good idea.
But the treatment of deapoh lacks grace and respect and was unnecessary. A compromise could easily have been found and it would have helped Ammunition enormously to retain the contribution of Barefiles.
I would be delighted if Ammunition could launch a serious download service, even if I anticipate many will boycott it, though I wonder how rapid their progress will be. Dubplate.net for example has, as it were, unfulfilled potential.
And good luck to them! It's a good idea.
But the treatment of deapoh lacks grace and respect and was unnecessary. A compromise could easily have been found and it would have helped Ammunition enormously to retain the contribution of Barefiles.
I would be delighted if Ammunition could launch a serious download service, even if I anticipate many will boycott it, though I wonder how rapid their progress will be. Dubplate.net for example has, as it were, unfulfilled potential.
Diggedy Derek
Stray Dog
The real problem here for me is that not that Rinse/Ammunition wanted sole distribution of their own radio shows, but that they've done it very poorly in the past (Rinse always down etc) and Deapoh has done it so brilliantly. If they end up offering a comparable level of service to Barefiles it would be almost forgivable, but I'd be surprised if they manage that, and I suspect the music will the loser here. Plus there were all sorts of compromises that could be reached.
There's still time for them to back down, I feel. It would almost certainly be the best move for them.
As for charging for Podcasts..... well, they need to get consolidate their audience a bit first, I think, as even a semi-regular listener like me has little idea who's on when at the moment, because they've got no fahking forum or schedule anywhere. Pathetic! And of course one of the reasons they've destabilised their audience in this way is because...... they've put Barefiles ouf of commision! So while in principle I have no massive beef with Rinse/Ammunition, in practice this is looking very stupid indeed.
Talking of practical issues, where's good to listen to grime and dubstep online at the moment in preference to Rinse? Sub FM?
There's still time for them to back down, I feel. It would almost certainly be the best move for them.
As for charging for Podcasts..... well, they need to get consolidate their audience a bit first, I think, as even a semi-regular listener like me has little idea who's on when at the moment, because they've got no fahking forum or schedule anywhere. Pathetic! And of course one of the reasons they've destabilised their audience in this way is because...... they've put Barefiles ouf of commision! So while in principle I have no massive beef with Rinse/Ammunition, in practice this is looking very stupid indeed.
Talking of practical issues, where's good to listen to grime and dubstep online at the moment in preference to Rinse? Sub FM?
UFO over easy
online mahjong
I will never pay to listen to a radio show.
And yes, listening to subfm is a very good idea indeed, although I might be a bit biased... :slanted:
And yes, listening to subfm is a very good idea indeed, although I might be a bit biased... :slanted: