what you currently enjoying ?

Do you ever get actual published authors or screenwriters writing games?

EDIT: I mean stories/plots in games, obv.

i haven't been playing it for very long but i agree, it seems pretty heavily flawed, as was morrowind which was similar and the only other game i've played by bethesda

but despite everything you mentioned they should be applauded for just for the scope of the worlds they create, and the attempt at avoiding linearity

i don't think it's a great idea to write off an entire art form (it can be! don't know if it should be or needs to be, but it certainly can be*), based on the perceptions of one game by journalists though

vim - i dunno, but it's funny hearing liam neeson playing one of the main characters in fallout




*i don't actually have a very solid idea of what constitutes art so maybe ignore that, but ill leave it in

UFO over easy said:

but despite everything you mentioned they should be applauded for just for the scope of the worlds they create, and the attempt at avoiding linearity

i don't think it's a great idea to write off an entire art form (it can be! don't know if it should be or needs to be, but it certainly can be), based on the perceptions of one game by journalists though

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I'm not writing off the entire art form - I just think the expectations are too low for particular types of game, because the current limitations of the medium are being allowed to excuse games' flaws, whether consciously or not.

I don't think that they should be applauded for creating their steaming pile of non-linearity. They should be heavily condemned for failing so badly, as they may have been able to spend their efforts producing a largely linear, but playable, involving experience (like Halo).

Bethesda shot for the moon, but ended up breaking up 5 seconds after take-off and taking out a district's worth of primary schools and kitten sanctuaries with their flaming wreckage.

i disagree..

you need people to be ambitious, whether they fail or not is almost beside the point. text based games functioned perfectly, far better than the first attempts at 3d just as an example. you could play them comfortably now and have fun, i found an internet version of the hitchhikers guide rpg lately, it was great. probably wouldn't bother digging up kings quest or something but i'm glad they existed or there might not be all those great point and click games

UFO over easy said:

i disagree..

you need people to be ambitious, whether they fail or not is almost beside the point.

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Sure, be ambitious. Just don't release your game to the innocent public if it turns out to be cack.

I could be ambitious in producing a prototype car that runs on plastic bags. If it looks and drives like a pig and has a tendency to break down every five minutes, I nevertheless have a moral duty not to foist it upon people.

haha well they do need to recoup expenses, and i dont reckon its as bad as you say, im enjoying it. how much does a game like that cost do you reckon? i have no idea anymore, it must be huge though

UFO over easy said:

How much does a game like that cost do you reckon? i have no idea anymore, it must be huge though

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I guess so, if they can afford to hire Liam Neeson.

Gears of War 2

My computer crashing and leaving me with nothing to do but read/mix/write... I want it all back but at the same time I can feel my mind clearing up significantly already. An hour or so a day on the internet has been plenty. I just need to set up a PC which only has music and Reason on it, really. Then maybe entrust my USB to someone responsible.

massive attack - protection
massive attack - protected (songs they sampled)
rolling stones - hot rocks
mobb deep - infamous

not much new music really. just cant be arsed for some reason.

Halo multiplayer was OK but the singleplayer was shit.

Don't play games often any more, but have had a good run around in Left 4 Dead on account of the zombie theme, and I love it. Linear but not too much so, great atmos, level design, game dynamics etc. Very little narrative rubbish beyond Survive & Escape. And to keep it on topic the music is great...

Another music relevant thing is that people describe unplanned gaming behaviour as "emergent gameplay". I've played games that way since I was young, and ever since coming across ambient music thought there was a strong comparison. In that emergent/ambient gameplay is often concerned with inhabiting the texture of the game and maintaining a balanced tension in the world rather than seeking to dominate it or follow a particular narrative.

Experience has a texture...

mixed_biscuits said:

The plaudits that this game has received confirms for me that computer games are still a long way away from meriting the snob value given to the more established art forms - it's very poor. (tho my version is for PS3, so who knows)

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I wholeheartedly disagree. The graphics on the Xbox version are great , mostly the scenery though, the people don't look that fantastic- read any review though and it'll undoubtedly mention that the conversion to the PS3 console was atrocious.

The scope is enormous, and there is a lot of detail and realism (walking over half an hour to your next target, often being severely limited in the way of things to ensure your survival, radiation poisoning, addiction to chemical stimulants, weapons malfunctioning etc.). The story (so far) isn't brilliant, but the general atmosphere of the game and how it plays out is very intense - it plays like a Cormac McCarthy novel.

Also, you can't have played much of it to say the references are shit. I think I've caught at least 15 different science fiction/post-apocalyptia references so far, aside from the Orwell one: Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, William Gibson, Phillip K. Dick, McCarthy.

It may not be the most inventive or experimental thing to ever have been made, but I find it an extremely welcome change from the never-ending barrage of Halo and Call of Duty games mostly on offer for Xbox.

/nerdout

This all probably should be in another thread really.

DJ PIMP said:

Don't play games often any more, but have had a good run around in Left 4 Dead on account of the zombie theme, and I love it. Linear but not too much so, great atmos, level design, game dynamics etc. Very little narrative rubbish beyond Survive & Escape. And to keep it on topic the music is great...

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i played this round my mates as well, really enjoyed it.

i only played the single player though. i like the idea of FPS co-op on PC, as far as i know its an area that hasn't been explored much, but im really put off by being called out as a noob by 15 year old americans with headsets and breaking voices

sick boy said:

it plays like a Cormac McCarthy novel.

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if this is true it appeals to me strongly!

One of the best co-op games I ever played was Wizball. Only for two people, but one operated the main ball "wizard", and the other player could be the "cat", who had to zip around the level and collect the paint drips that fell after shooting coloured balls. You progressed from one level to the next by collecting enough paint so as to entirely colour the landscape, which started out monochromatic moon-grey.

It was highly original and a genuine delight to play...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizball

that sounds wonderful

just seen it was developed by Sensible! they were impossibly deep

Sick Boy said:

The story (so far) isn't brilliant, but the general atmosphere of the game and how it plays out is very intense - it plays like a Cormac McCarthy novel.

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Horses for courses, but I guess I won't be reading any Cormac McCarthy any time soon.

As far as realism goes, any sense of coherence or plausibility can easily be undermined by moments that don't ring true. The probability of having these moments increases as does the scope of the game. Games have to carefully circumscribe their 'world' and ensure that the gameplayer does not ask any more of this world than it can deliver: for instance, in Fallout, the game leads you to want to have 'realistic' conversations with its characters but fails to deliver on this promise - frustation ensues.

mixed_biscuits said:

Horses for courses, but I guess I won't be reading any Cormac McCarthy any time soon.

As far as realism goes, any sense of coherence or plausibility can easily be undermined by moments that don't ring true. The probability of having these moments increases as does the scope of the game. Games have to carefully circumscribe their 'world' and ensure that the gameplayer does not ask any more of this world than it can deliver: for instance, in Fallout, the game leads you to want to have 'realistic' conversations with its characters but fails to deliver on this promise - frustation ensues.

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I will agree with you that the dialogue is pretty shit. At my current point in the game I just gained access to this creepy all-children post-apocalyptic community hidden in a mine by telling the assault rifle wielding youth at the door that his face looks like my ass.

Bang Diddley said:

Hugh Mundell - Mundell

Somewhere between 70's accoustic roots and early digi. Junjo Lawes on production. Can someone rec some of his other works ?

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The Africa Must Be Free set produced by Augustus Pablo is exceptional, and 'Jah Fire' produced by Jammy is also very good http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=107814&highlight=107816

Mundell hasn't got a massive catalogue as he died fairly young if I remember correctly. There is a nice melancholy vibe in his best songs.

Bang Diddley said:

Can someone rec some of his other works ?

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i have like 30 albums...