Change

nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
droid said:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1112/1226408552219.html
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Rahm Emanuel also worked at Arby's earlier in life. So...?

This does not mean he can't help Obama clean up Bush's mess and (follow out Obama's original plan to) roll back the Bush tax cuts to the rates we had under Clinton.

I hear Hill might be appointed Secretary of State. I'll believe that when I see it, though. I think mighty B was more than kinda personally hurt when Hillary started the whole Bill Ayers thing during the primaries. Don't know that he wants to associate himself too much with the Clinton establishment if he can help it, either.
 
D

droid

Guest
nomadthesecond said:
Rahm Emanuel also worked at Arby's earlier in life. So...?

This does not mean he can't help Obama clean up Bush's mess and (follow out Obama's original plan to) roll back the Bush tax cuts to the rates we had under Clinton.
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So your saying that working in Arby's indicates a conflict of interest when it comes to middle eastern geopolitics? :rolleyes:

Maybe Emanuel can help 'roll back the tax cuts'. The point Browne was making is that his appointment indicates that there will be little or no change in American policy towards Israel. Is that really such a wild assertion?

"We need to fortify the military's 'thin green line' around the world by adding to the U.S. Special Forces and the Marines, and by expanding the U.S. army by 100,000 more troops.. …Finally we must protect our homeland and civil liberties by creating a new domestic counterterrorism force like Britain's MI5.” - 'The Plan: Big Ideas for America': Emanuel and Reed.

"Obviously he [Rahm] will influence the president to be pro-Israel… Why wouldn't he be [influential]? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House." - Emanuel speaking of himself in Ma’ariv newspaper.

Sound like a real sea change doesn't it?
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
droid said:
So your saying that working in Arby's indicates a conflict of interest when it comes to middle eastern geopolitics? :rolleyes:

Maybe Emanuel can help 'roll back the tax cuts'. The point Browne was making is that his appointment indicates that there will be little or no change in American policy towards Israel. Is that really such a wild assertion?

"We need to fortify the military's 'thin green line' around the world by adding to the U.S. Special Forces and the Marines, and by expanding the U.S. army by 100,000 more troops.. …Finally we must protect our homeland and civil liberties by creating a new domestic counterterrorism force like Britain's MI5.” - 'The Plan: Big Ideas for America': Emanuel and Reed.

"Obviously he [Rahm] will influence the president to be pro-Israel… Why wouldn't he be [influential]? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House." - Emanuel speaking of himself in Ma’ariv newspaper.

Sound like a real sea change doesn't it?
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Once again, a non-American competely misses the point of what "change" means politically at the moment.

There is too much going wrong at once for Obama to be able to march into the White House and immediately start some sort of progressive socialist agenda. The right falling from grace IS a sea change in American politics. In hundreds of ways. Do we really need to go over which?

No one thinks Obama is going to be a *radical* change, just a WELCOME one.

Re Israel Obama OBVIOUSLY appointed Emanuel because he needed to appear tough on the subject of anti-Israel sentiment after being (rather succesfully, I might add, in the minds of many diehard repubs) aligned with pro-Hamas forces and such. Let's watch as Obama doesn't give two shits about Israel with all this domestic turmoil to take care of...
 
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D

droid

Guest
nomadthesecond said:
Once again, a non-American competely misses the point of what "change" means politically at the moment.

There is too much going wrong at once for Obama to be able to march into the White House and immediately start some sort of progressive socialist agenda. The right falling from grace IS a sea change in American politics. In hundreds of ways. Do we really need to go over which?

No one thinks Obama is going to be a *radical* change, just a WELCOME one.
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Tschh - who do we non-American think we are - blithely speculating as to whether or not Obama's vague promises of 'change' actually amount to anything? Sure isn't the fact that an articulate black man got elected enough? Who cares if the policies remain the same?

'Politically' change means nothing more than a rebranding after the last managers drove the company into the ground, but otherwise its business as usual...

Re Israel Obama OBVIOUSLY appointed Emanuel because he needed to appear tough on the subject of anti-Israel sentiment after being (rather succesfully, I might add, in the minds of many diehard repubs) aligned with pro-Hamas forces and such. Let's watch as Obama doesn't give two shits about Israel with all this domestic turmoil to take care of...
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Hmm... so Obama doesn't care about the cornerstone of US Middle east policy for the last 40 years? Change indeed.

I'm more than happy to wait and see what he does when he actually gets in, and I am not denying the obvious symbolic importance of his victory, but this is all starting to smell more and more like Blair in '97...
 
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W

waffle

Banned
Hollywood Obamalon

'I am new enough on the political scene that I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views'.--- Obama, quoted from The Audacity of Hope.

_45200996_-32.jpg


Let me be your fantasy? Some are clearly hoping so, as this edition of The New York Times, dated 4th July, 2009, indicates.

Pranksters print spoof NY Times

The spoof edition fooled many readers

A fake edition of the New York Times announcing the end of the Iraq war has been handed out to commuters in the US.

More than one million free copies of the 14-page "special edition" newspaper were distributed, mainly in the cities of New York and Los Angeles.

Another bogus story was about all Americans being given free healthcare.

A liberal group called the Yes Men, well known in the US for its practical jokes, claimed responsibility for the elaborate prank.

The fake paper - dated 4 July 2009 - had a motto on its front page which read "all the news we hope to print".

The hoax was accompanied by a website that mimicked the look of The New York Times's real website.

A page of the spoof site contained links to dozens of liberal organisations, which were also listed in the print edition.

The fake edition surprised commuters, many of whom took the free copies thinking they were legitimate.

Later, the Yes Men issued a statement claiming responsibility.

"In an elaborate operation six months in the planning, 1.2 million papers were printed at six different presses and driven to pre-arranged pick-up locations."

The statement added that thousands of volunteers helped to distribute the fake edition.

A spokeswoman for the newspaper, Catherine Mathis, said: "This is obviously a fake issue of The Times. We are in the process of finding out more about it."
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P

polystyle

Well-known member
That fake paper is funny,
better to have some fun in these Times

Collins says it for some who are unclear about what kind(s) of change are involved here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/opinion/15collins.html?ref=opinion

' I know, my little Obama hyperpartisans. You spent a year of your lives trying to keep Hillary out of the White House because she voted to let the Bush administration invade Iraq. And now, your man is talking about letting her be the point person on foreign policy. What happened to the transformative change?

We have been through all this before. Candidates who promise to bring everybody together are talking about meeting in the middle. The only people who think Barack Obama is a radical are you and Joe the Plumber. '

'Meeting in the middle' is quite a change from what we've had.
That's the deal people.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
droid said:
like Blair in '97...
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Yeah, maybe, except America is a completely different country with different problems.

Not to mention most people here probably don't even know who Blair is.

No one, I repeat, NO ONE, thinks Obama is going to be some sort of radical policy changer, except the fucking Hannity right.

Most Americans want moderate policies. Electing someone who may be able to accomplish this is a sea change.

Good article, Polystyle.
 
D

droid

Guest
Sure , but youre missing the point of the analogy. Blair was swept into power on a wave of popular hysteria after an interminable conservative reign and he turned out to be just as bad if not worse than the lot before him - only much more 'sincere' and with better PR.
 
vimothy

vimothy

yurp
It's not all neocons and neolibs. Krugman:

Because it’s such good news. Elizabeth Warren, expert on personal bankruptcy, crusader against credit card industry lobbyists, and founder of the extremely useful blog Credit Slips, to be a member of the bailout oversight board.

Elections have consequences.
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swears

swears

preppy-kei
Not a promising start

This story, indicating that the Obama administration is bailing on the idea even investigating whether criminal charges ought to be brought against Bush administration officials who committed war crimes such as torture, is very discouraging.
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http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2008/11/no-we-cant.html


Missile-defense skeptics yearning for a fresh look at the wisdom of pumping $10 billion annually into missile defense aren't going to get it from Barack Obama when he moves into the Oval Office. The Russians — along with the two men most likely to end up running the Pentagon for the President-elect — have already made sure of that.
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1859393,00.html


And he hasn't even been sworn in yet...
 
P

polystyle

Well-known member
Awww, and he's not even sworn in yet ...
You know we can understand how our friends can be all concerned about the incoming Obama Admin, but one simply has to wait and see who is in and what will really go on ...
Ya know one day it seems there might be a auto industry bailout and people get all up in arms, next day that idea's already faded and another item takes over the cycle.
If people keep finding ways ( i mean links ) a US Pres elect doesn't 'live up' to one's expectations, it may be a tough, trying wait till after mid Jan.

Can imagine one will need a daily 'does Obama live up to my ( Fill the blank )' report from Jan.20 onwards rate things are going !
;)

So then - have to ask - when does England, Europe develope an 'Obama' ?
- make a chance for an Obama to get elected ?
Who is going to be the 'right side of history' for the English ?
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
This story, indicating that the Obama administration is bailing on the idea even investigating whether criminal charges ought to be brought against Bush administration officials who committed war crimes such as torture, is very discouraging.
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That was never gonna happen. It's the There But For The Grace Of God Law.

So then - have to ask - when does England, Europe develope an 'Obama' ?
- make a chance for an Obama to get elected ?
Who is going to be the 'right side of history' for the English ?
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Shaddup. We live vicariously through yours.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
polystyle desu said:
So then - have to ask - when does England, Europe develope an 'Obama' ?
- make a chance for an Obama to get elected ?
Who is going to be the 'right side of history' for the English ?
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We had one in '97... so you can see why I'm cynical now.

I hope he's a good prez anyway, just massively relieved McCain and Bible Spice didn't get in.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
So Tony Blair is a former activist/community organizer from a minority group who worked really hard to get where he was and deserved to get elected based on his welcomed pragmatic approach to politics on the heels of a 25 year neo-conservative orgy in Washington that went south, but not without dragging the average citizen/consumer down with them?

Obama is not the first politician (not in US or anywhere) who was elected in part because of a massive fallout/crisis of faith in an opposing party. It happens all the time. Every 30 years or so in the U.S.

I don't see the Blair analogy. It's too simplistic.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
People in the UK had very high expectations of Blair, he was also a pragmatist coming in after a long period of conservatism. It's not a direct comparison obviously, but I'm sure some of the feelings towards Obama are the same.

I really hope he succeeds in what he wants to do without being hamstrung by the republicans and is good for american workers.

I'm just generally a massive pessimist, I suppose.
 
Mr. Tea

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
swears said:
People in the UK had very high expectations of Blair, he was also a pragmatist coming in after a long period of conservatism. It's not a direct comparison obviously, but I'm sure some of the feelings towards Obama are the same.
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Yeah, on those points it's a pretty good analogy. A whole general feeling of a 'wind of change', the optimism, the 'fresh start' vibe, to say nothing of the charisma and (relative) youth of the man in question.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
Mr. Tea said:
Yeah, on those points it's a pretty good analogy. A whole general feeling of a 'wind of change', the optimism, the 'fresh start' vibe, to say nothing of the charisma and (relative) youth of the man in question.
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So in the same sense, you could say Tony Blair was just the British JFK.
 
swears

swears

preppy-kei
I remember Blair being talked up as the British Bill Clinton at the time, although Clinton was just as good buddies with Major.
 
P

polystyle

Well-known member
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