rolling back to the future garage/post-dubstep/alt-funkstep/intelli-2step etc thread

[Blackdown]

new scenes tend to grow and change faster because they have less to lose and less definition, but that's just a historical fact rather than some kind of law.

older scenes could just as easily go through periods of intense change and move forward, it's just that generally they dont tend to, probably because of the weight of historical baggage and how that sense of identity inhibits real boundary pushing.

so if you're enjoying making grime, do that thing Slackk!

 

[Slothrop]

That's kind of the thing here, though. As far as I can see (although I'm not totally on the ball at the moment) post-dubstep / whatever is a fairly big and diverse thing dovetailing into a bunch of different scenes (grime, funky, dubstep garage revivalism) in different ways and it doesn't have a big predictable centre of gravity. So saying "is this good" rather than "is this pushing things forwards" isn't resigning yourself to stagnation, it's taking the lack of stagnation as read.

 

[e/y]

http://punchdrunkmusic.com/products-page/vinyl/alex-coulton-bounce-bounce-pev-version-dnous-ytivil/

 

[rockypoppy2]

it's taking the lack of stagnation as read.

i didnt quite follow that bit there - what do you mean?

@slackk - i think ideas evolve and change as much as the sounds do. I'm not sure i could reduce grime to a singular idea, but i do think that ideas fade aswell, that they need to be sustained by the community they're centred around for them to exist in their most immediate way.

I think that's what i got from grime the most, immediacy - to the places, the sounds, the characters, the raves (when they weren't locked off), the broadcasts - you could use the network in such an immediate way to tune in and belong, but it didnt feel like observation from afar, with the crowd interaction, rwds, texting the stations, chatting to mcs, it felt more like a common gathering of a disparate community, regular faces, customs, etiquettes all let loose amidst the sonic fury.

In that sense it was all much more than sound - grime as a musical idea doesnt just occupy a sonic territory - its richness and influence is spread much further afield.

But if that community has moved on then the sound will ring a little more hollow each time its reincarnated, echoes of the past

 

[Leo]

not sure if this goes here but...i like.

 

[Local Authority]

This 'scene' is now focussed around the internet. Youtube, Tumblr and /mu/ are its mediums for community, which I think leaves a lot more room for stagnation.

When people say its easy to look for music on the internet, I think they mean in theory. Its as easy as how hard you will look and people tend to look for things similar to what they already like. Google now only gives you search results based on what it thinks you like. Mutations aren't radical as they used to be because we have less influences and this is why we're still stuck in the what you call it? situation. The only changes I can observe are better production techniques or people adapting the past to fit the present. The only reason for any of this is because the community is based on the internet now and the internet only reduces us to words, in turn to a string of 0's and 1's. It localizes us into a small group who like nice sounding songs with rough percussion, light synths and female vocals.

 

[rockypoppy2]

I think the last post got it bang on.

I was thinking a little more, and it struck me that the absence of community in the physical sense is the limiting factor.

If you interpret road rap as partly an evolution of the grime scene (similar actors, customs, aspirations, methods etc...) then what strikes me is the lack of interplay between people in the scene. There is no real scene, there is just a collection of individuals doing similar things autonomously.

When it was grime, and the internet thing hadnt kicked off to the extent it has today, people were referencing each other, calling out names on the track, subliminals, postcodes, clubs (i never went to stratford rex or the palace pavillion, but those names are ingrained in my imagination) clashes etc... This cross pollination of ideas, challenges was what fuelled the communal aspect of the sound, the scene as it were.

Now with road rap, especially in its most stunted, reactionary guise, that tradition of referencing other people, other crews, other areas seems to have gone. Almost all the videos on youtube i see are purely about promotion of the self, or the small nuclear gang unit - not about promoting a sound, a movement, or even a lifestyle. Its become so introspective thanks to the medium it operates within and i think that's part of the problem.

The counter argument is that increased musical exposure via the web necessarily leads to an enriched musical heritage and increases the chances of weird hybridizations and sonic mutations ocurring. But if they occur in a bubble, in isolation, or in very small circulation, are they really influential at all?

 

[Slothrop]

I'm always a little suspicious of claims about the internet meaning that we're less directly engaged with music scenes and communities than we used to be in this context - I mean, I'm less directly engaged with music scenes and communities than I used to be, but that's mostly because I'm older, have other stuff to do, and can't do all-nighters as regularly as I used to.

On the other hand, it's an interesting (and much less subjective) point about road rap being less scene-y than grime used to be.

 

[Webstarr]

I guess this is the most relevant place to put these, should be hitting the shops in August:

">

 

[trilliam]

I think the last post got it bang on.

I was thinking a little more, and it struck me that the absence of community in the physical sense is the limiting factor.

If you interpret road rap as partly an evolution of the grime scene (similar actors, customs, aspirations, methods etc...) then what strikes me is the lack of interplay between people in the scene. There is no real scene, there is just a collection of individuals doing similar things autonomously.

When it was grime, and the internet thing hadnt kicked off to the extent it has today, people were referencing each other, calling out names on the track, subliminals, postcodes, clubs (i never went to stratford rex or the palace pavillion, but those names are ingrained in my imagination) clashes etc... This cross pollination of ideas, challenges was what fuelled the communal aspect of the sound, the scene as it were.

Now with road rap, especially in its most stunted, reactionary guise, that tradition of referencing other people, other crews, other areas seems to have gone. Almost all the videos on youtube i see are purely about promotion of the self, or the small nuclear gang unit - not about promoting a sound, a movement, or even a lifestyle. Its become so introspective thanks to the medium it operates within and i think that's part of the problem.

The counter argument is that increased musical exposure via the web necessarily leads to an enriched musical heritage and increases the chances of weird hybridizations and sonic mutations ocurring. But if they occur in a bubble, in isolation, or in very small circulation, are they really influential at all?

you should apply this analysis to something you're more versed in.

 

[Local Authority]

Appears to me, there are two communities.

The community of the fans and the community of the business.

Nothing as grassroots as the early days of grime/dubstep. Where the fans done all the business and the business was trying to get your first shows and releases out by yourself. Now its very much,

place a song on soundcloud/youtube
get first release on label
do couple of shows
get first release on artist/big label
sign to agency
blow up

Its difficult for a community/scene to build from the ground up because someone else does all the work for you. All you have to do is make a song and promote it in the right places.

There is no incentive for people to create a scene or community by helping each other. We all know who the names that can help us, all we need to do is google it. Its easier to do that and hope someone in a better position will give you a leg up, rather then spending loads of time and money doing it yourself. And then once you've done that, you're part of an established scene.

 

[Local Authority]

Hessle Audio is doing something very interesting however.

 

[Blackdown]

Wen interview and production showcase.

 

[Roshman]

Appears to me, there are two communities.

The community of the fans and the community of the business.

Nothing as grassroots as the early days of grime/dubstep. Where the fans done all the business and the business was trying to get your first shows and releases out by yourself. Now its very much,

place a song on soundcloud/youtube
get first release on label
do couple of shows
get first release on artist/big label
sign to agency
blow up

Its difficult for a community/scene to build from the ground up because someone else does all the work for you. All you have to do is make a song and promote it in the right places.

There is no incentive for people to create a scene or community by helping each other. We all know who the names that can help us, all we need to do is google it. Its easier to do that and hope someone in a better position will give you a leg up, rather then spending loads of time and money doing it yourself. And then once you've done that, you're part of an established scene.

This is pretty bang on.

Who would of heard of Beneath were it not for Blackdowns Showcase mix and rinse shows? It seems like to get anywhere you need to have a helping hand from someone.

Also, how many new vinyl labels feature artists that have never had a release before? Not many, distributors are unlikely to strike deals with labels looking to push a fresh sound without bigger names in the scene at least in the first few releases.

The climate is different. It's harder to do something as amazing as what Dubstep did in 2002ish. What happened with dubstep was also due to a bunch of guys heading down to the same club playing music no one had ever heard before. Who's going to step out to a small club without a big name playing music you've never heard before today, in a time where a few clicks on RA and I can find a range of artists I want to see all playing this week?

I hate writing questions in a response but it I felt it was the best way to raise a point.

 

[Ory]

It seems like to get anywhere you need to have a helping hand from someone.

path of least resistance

but i don't reckon it's absolutely necessary

 

[rockypoppy2]

Who's going to step out to a small club without a big name playing music you've never heard before today, in a time where a few clicks on RA and I can find a range of artists I want to see all playing this week?

It depends on whether you trust the musical taste of the people promoting the dance doesnt it? I've lost count of the times i've been to FWD over the years to witness previously unknown (to me at least) dj's under the red light.

I'm quite happy to gamble and pay to see someone i've never heard if i trust that the people who booked him/her are worth the money.

Sometimes before a night out i might check up the dj's on myspace or soundcloud or whatever out of curiosity/quality control but i find it just dampens the mystique. I'd rather be confronted with the music in the environment it was created for and leave the judging for later.

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

that oneman fabric cd is def better than his rinse cd - i love the mark pritchard track at the start and its great to hear groove chronicles, basement jaxxx and youngsta, the fis t track (hes underrated) is killer, few other new ones on there are good too, but i wish this stuff had a bit more london attitude. i would like it a lot more if it did.

 

[wise]

I thought it was really dull, like an any dj fact mag round up.
Mala used to start sets with that Mark Pritchard track didn't he?

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

not sure, but its still a good track. ending with burial is pretty dull even though i like the song. the rinse cd wasnt paced or mixed as well, but there were a lot more standouts on there. this one seems more considered and planned, which is sort of what you expect from oneman, but i think i just dont like his taste that much these days. considering the garage and grime stuff he likes, he does like a lot of unexciting music too.

 

[wise]

I know you have to move forward and that but i'd much rather hear him mixing garage and dubstep still