Are you an owl or a lark?

[nomadthethird]

Related - I was pretty impressed with Sasha Grey on Tyra Bank's programme, she gave the sanctimonious, hypocritical cunt a run for her money.

Don't think the 'men don't love girls who have fucked up sex' thing is true at all, from talking to people my age generally. Maybe back in the day, but I think the advent of widespread uptake of internet porn has basically done away with that.

I hope so!

Yeah, I saw Sasha Grey on Tyra. She did pretty well considering the panel was stacked against her. I usually like Dr. Drew, but he was just being a douche on that one. Sasha's gonna be just fine. She'll never be Donna Reed or June Cleaver, but OHWELLS.

I think a lot of guys *fetishize* women from porn or sex workers or whatever, but they're scared of or intimidated by them outside of the biz. Most of the female sex workers I knew did not have boyfriends, and the ones who did, had boyfriends who worked in the industry or were very chill interesting different kind of guys (lot of them from fetish communities).

But who knows, you never know, I do think younger generations are different from older ones in that regard.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I love how men want the word "whore" to mean just anybody who has a lot of sex, conveniently, so they don't have to feel uncomfortable about using it.

Nomad, could you drop all this "men think [this]", "men want [that]", "men say [the other]" schtick? Believe it or not, Man A does not necessarily have exactly the same opinions, values and kinks as Man B. You'd have a fucking field day if one of us said "women think/want/say [whatever]".

It's a bit like this, except with 'math' replaced by 'sex/sexuality/relationships', and the genders reversed.

By all means take issue with matmustard's use of the word "whore" or whatever, but it's not really justified to use that an excuse to complain about some homogenous, undifferentiated 'Men', is it?

 

[Mr. Tea]

Most of the female sex workers I knew did not have boyfriends

Does this strike you as odd? Most of the guys I know probably wouldn't want to go out with a girl who has sex with other men for a living.

This is probably because we're all secretly terrified of female sexuality, of course.

 

[nomadthethird]

Nomad, could you drop all this "men think [this]", "men want [that]", "men say [the other]" schtick? Believe it or not, Man A does not necessarily have exactly the same opinions, values and kinks as Man B. You'd have a fucking field day if one of us said "women think/want/say [whatever]".

It's a bit like this, except with 'math' replaced by 'sex/sexuality/relationships', and the genders reversed.

By all means take issue with matmustard's use of the word "whore" or whatever, but it's not really justified to use that an excuse to complain about some homogenous, undifferentiated 'Men', is it?

Mr. Tea, obviously, not ALL men do anything, as if that needs to be stipulated at every turn. I did not say that all men did anything. But if I had a dime for every time a male used the word "whore" and then said "well, I meant alll types of whores" as if that word is gender neutral. It isn't a gender neutral term.

I have only ever seen men do this. Especially on here. I've seen it on here lots of times.

I've never once in my life heard a woman do this.

That was my point up there.

 

[nomadthethird]

Does this strike you as odd? Most of the guys I know probably wouldn't want to go out with a girl who has sex with other men for a living.

This is probably because we're all secretly terrified of female sexuality, of course.

Actually, it does surprise me somewhat, at least in light of this thread, given how you and almost every other male here has insisted that love and women who have sex the way men fantasize about it aren't mutually exclusive in your minds.

But in reality, no, it does not surprise me. And not all sex workers have intercourse for a living, fwiw.

 

[grizzleb]

Actually, it does surprise me somewhat, at least in light of this thread, given how you and almost every other male here has insisted that love and women who have sex the way men fantasize about it aren't mutually exclusive in your minds.

But in reality, no, it does not surprise me. And not all sex workers have intercourse for a living, fwiw.

Do we fantisize about women having sex with loads of different people, or just with ourselves? I think there's a difference between being cool with your girlfriend sticking huge shit up her ass, and your girlfriend having sex with loads of other people...

 

[grizzleb]

Should maybe note that if I'm watching porn I'm usually mentally placing myself in the position of whoevers doing the thing wot they be doing. The visuals are more just a spark for my flaccid imagination than anything else, the best chuggs are still homegrown, these occur with increasing rarity however...

 

[Mr. Tea]

Actually, it does surprise me somewhat, at least in light of this thread, given how you and almost every other male here has insisted that love and women who have sex the way men fantasize about it aren't mutually exclusive in your minds.

Well hang on - having wild/crazy/kinky/'non-vanilla' sex with your actual partner is one thing; having sex (of whatever kind) with loads of different people, whether you're getting paid for it or not, is another. And there you go again: "the kind of sex men fantasise about". Well tell me, what do I fantasise about, seeing as you're apparently the expert? I can't say the idea of swinging/partner-swapping or group sex holds a huge appeal for me. That doesn't mean I think people who are into it are weird or wrong, it's just not my particular bag.

I just think it's a false dichotomy to say there's romantic-love-but-boring-vanilla-sex on the one hand, or having a porn star/prostitute/dominatrix for a girlfriend, on the other.

And not all sex workers have intercourse for a living, fwiw.

Obviously. But the thread went in this direction when someone mentioned porn (and someone else mentioned "whores"), and unless you're talking about softcore 'glamour model' stuff, being a porn model does tend to involve sex...

 

[padraig (u.s.)]

being a porn model does tend to involve sex...

point of order - "sex worker" is a much broader category tho, including dominatrices, S & M and various other fetish things & so on, tho I'm not the man to break down the "so on" part - I've had a couple friends in this side of the sex business but I dunno too much about it really.

generally on nomad's side (the issue of sticky generalizations about "men" etc. aside), unfortunately don't have the time to contribute more.

& I've been a lark since I went back to school. that's what happens when you have classes in the morning 5 days a week, a brutal schedule & 2 jobs. not that I'm complaining, b/c I know people who do more and have kids, so hey.

 

[matmustard]

paid whores (of any gender)

oh well, at least i now know what a scapegoat feels like

 

[nomadthethird]

I'm not trying to tell you what you fantasize about, T. But as a scientistical person yourself, you must realize that there are sexologsits and sex researchers who *have* studied men's fantasies, and specifically the fantasies of Western European and American men, and have discovered that there are trends in male fantasy. So there are men who are outliers, but also men who cluster around the mean. And some who fall a standard deviation or two around it, following the empirical rule. It's a bell curve.

What these researchers have found is that most men fantasize about having sex with a variety of partners, and in a variety of ways, not limited to the kind of softcore ecstatic love making you're going to find in an R-rated movie. As do most women, actually. (And in fact, women become more aroused while watching porn faster, but report much less arousal at watching porn then men do. Hmmm... I smell "gender expectations" data skew...)

I don't think there's any kind of dichotomy between anything. At all. I'm the one who thinks that missionary position straight vanilla-as-can-be sex is potentially the most sado-masochistic thing a person can do! It's people who think that straight, vanilla sex is somehow inherently moral and ethical while other kinds aren't that form the dichotomies.

I'm sorry if I haven't been wording my posts as carefully as possible, but like padraig, I'm in a pre-med program. I have an exam on Chemical Kinetics in 45 minutes and I have only popped in here with one eye on things.

 

[nomadthethird]

oh well, at least i now know what a scapegoat feels like

What are you on about now?

Oh right, how persecuted you are? Er sumthing.

 

[BareBones]

(Also, I love that the club you went to is called The Cock, there's a wonderful up-front-ness about the name.)

A friend of mine once told me about a gay club called "Manhole", which i thought was pretty excellent.

 

[IdleRich]

"Definitely an owl - I mean, it seems acceptable to spend the whole night looking at pornography - but imagine doing that all day? Only a total loser would do that..."

Procrasturbating.

"I like porn, but definitely pay more attention to it when I'm depressed."

I read recently that three internet activities people are more likely to pursue when depressed are viewing pornography, gambling their money away at poker or whatever........ and going on networking sites/forums.

"Also, I love that the club you went to is called The Cock, there's a wonderful up-front-ness about the name"

Named for the bird of course if the sign was to be believed. (Apparently one mooted tagline for the film Cockfighter was "he walked into town with his cock in his hand and what he did with it was illegal in 49 states).

"I gather that an unbelievable amount of gay porn revolves around the theme of an ostensibly straight young guy being 'turned' or discovering his true inner gayness with the assistance of a bunch of burly bikers/sailors/whatever the preferred stereotype is these days."

Think a lot of porn relies on the "No I don't like... oh yes I do" kind of thing that you mention here. Hardly surprising, I knew a guy who was really into foot fetishism and he swore blind that all women secretly love people licking their feet even if they don't realise it. It's basically nice to think that everyone wants to do the precise thing that you want them to do - even those who seemingly don't.

I'm an owl.

 

[mixed_biscuits]

I can post the most innocuous thing and it still ends up as a mass debate.

 

[IdleRich]

You should get back to your specialist subject - maths debating.

 

[grizzleb]

What these researchers have found is that most men fantasize about having sex with a variety of partners, and in a variety of ways, not limited to the kind of softcore ecstatic love making you're going to find in an R-rated movie. As do most women, actually.

But that's not what's being discussed is it? They don't fantasise about their partner having sex with multiple partners, do they?
I mean, to be able to be in love with a girl who likes fucked up sex does not instantly equate to feeling comfortable with the person who you choose as a partner going about and shagging loads of other people. Even if it forms the substance of fantasy for yourself, I'd certainly say it's only guys who are into cuckold shit who are turned on by the idea of their partner getting beefed by someone else. And, what is true in fantasy doesn't automatically mean that this is what's best for the person to be carrying out in daily life...

 

[nomadthethird]

Yup, the sign for the Cock is a a big neon lighted rooster.

I read recently that three internet activities people are more likely to pursue when depressed are viewing pornography, gambling their money away at poker or whatever........ and going on networking sites/forums.

Internet poker, dissensus, and three hours a night of shemale roman showers and pony training! A day in the life.

But that's not what's being discussed is it? They don't fantasise about their partner having sex with multiple partners, do they?
I mean, to be able to be in love with a girl who likes fucked up sex does not instantly equate to feeling comfortable with the person who you choose as a partner going about and shagging loads of other people. Even if it forms the substance of fantasy for yourself, I'd certainly say it's only guys who are into cuckold shit who are turned on by the idea of their partner getting beefed by someone else. And, what is true in fantasy doesn't automatically mean that this is what's best for the person to be carrying out in daily life...

EXACTLY. Is there something difficult about this?

A lot of men are hypocrites when it comes to sexuality. They think they should be having all this sex with all these people, or want to be, at least, but that the women they date/marry/whatever shouldn't. Like it's all fun and games while they're watching porn, but if their girlfriend were doing the same thing without them it would probably be a different story. Or even using a vibrator frequently.

 

[grizzleb]

What? I'm sure most men would accept their partner having a sexual appetite for other men as a given. What they probably wouldn't take too kindly to would be if their partner actually followed through with this. And would accept similar distaste if they done the same. You're talking rubbish. Fantasising about having sex with someone other than your partner and simultaneously not wanting their partner to be actually having sex with a lot of other people does not make someone a hypocrite.
And I know that the porn bit is not true also.

 

[nomadthethird]

What? I'm sure most men would accept their partner having a sexual appetite for other men as a given. What they probably wouldn't take too kindly to would be if their partner actually followed through with this. And would accept similar distaste if they done the same. You're talking rubbish. Fantasising about having sex with someone other than your partner and simultaneously not wanting their partner to be actually having sex with a lot of other people does not make someone a hypocrite.
And I know that the porn bit is not true also.

Yawn. Stretch.