mephedrone

[Mr. Tea]

Entactogens sure are popular in the U.K.

It's true, a handfull of pink Mitzubishis are the only thing that can melt that stiff upper lip.

Meph isn't really entactogenic or empathogenic though, it's just another variation on a theme of speed.

 

[Mr. Tea]

Alcohol kills 100 peeps a day according to some boy on ITV news. So there ya go.

Of course you have to weigh that up against the much higher number of people who drink...then again, meph isn't exactly an obscure "research chemical" anymore, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if tens or hundreds of 1,000s of people are using on any given weekend at the moment.

 

[cobretti]

Of course you have to weigh that up against the much higher number of people who drink...then again, meph isn't exactly an obscure "research chemical" anymore, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if tens or hundreds of 1,000s of people are using on any given weekend at the moment.

There were probably over a thousand people using it at Bloc alone last weekend.

I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal; in my experience, teens and young adults who are interested in mind altering substances aren't concerned with whether or not the substance is illegal, only if it gives a good dunt or not. Maybe that's just Glasgwegians.

 

[mistersloane]

There were probably over a thousand people using it at Bloc alone last weekend.

I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal; in my experience, teens and young adults who are interested in mind altering substances aren't concerned with whether or not the substance is illegal, only if it gives a good dunt or not. Maybe that's just Glasgwegians.

Maybe it's just me but the interview with the parents looked totally staged, like something from Brasseye, or a government advert made in order to get something banned.

It's quite weird with this stuff, I've never seen a substance become so prevalent so fast. E took much longer, and was way too expensive for most people when it happened.

What worries me is the lack of people stating that there's obviously the market for a legal drug, all this 'must ban it now' stuff just makes me depressed, methedrone is so ripe and blaaaaand enough to be able to just keep it legal and tax it.

 

[mistersloane]

good dunt

Great phrase, not heard that before.

 

[DannyL]

The BBC News last night was actually fairly objective, considering. They gave a good summary of the case against banning - creation of a criminalised black market, pushing the substance and it's users underground, criminalising young people,degradation in quality - and let David Nutt speak his piece - his idea about a Category D. However, as they sacked him recently and as we're in the run up to an election I don't think any party wants to be appear soft of the issue. Goodbye common sense, hello Mail-stule outrage and prohibition.

This country sometimes. I swear.

 

[mistersloane]

The BBC News last night was actually fairly objective, considering. They gave a good summary of the case against banning - creation of a criminalised black market, pushing the substance and it's users underground, criminalising young people,degradation in quality - and let David Nutt speak his piece - his idea about a Category D. However, as they sacked him recently and as we're in the run up to an election I don't think any party wants to be appear soft of the issue. Goodbye common sense, hello Mail-stule outrage and prohibition.

This country sometimes. I swear.

That's really good to hear, cos as much as the legalise-it stuff bores me to tears - it'll never happen here - I just wasn't seeing another side to the story anywhere and like you said, this country...

Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.

Part of the fact it's become so prevalent is that, in London anyway it seems, is that K supplies ran dry. Or dealers/suppliers switched to a legal substance - it seemed like such a good exercise in 'look! if you provide a legal alternative to this stuff, people will just take that instead!'....

 

[DannyL]

Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.

And to state the obvious, the blurring between legality and illegality - the moral case - is made shaky by the kind of hysterical scare-mongering in the press. i.e. the Mail screaming "KILLER DRUG" when this directly contradicts the experiences of thousands and thousands of people. Why do people buy these papers just to be scared? Can't they just go on a rollercoaster instead? if you basically lie about one thing, why should someone believe the truth is being told about heroin or crack?

Sorry to belabour the obvious, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

 

[Mr. Tea]

I agree with Sloane though, not to be disrespectful but I think the parents have quite a blinkered view of their son saying he would never have taken it if it was illegal...

But hadn't they taken methadone as well? Which is a class A drug already? The mind boggles...

 

[grizzleb]

Does anyone not think that all substances should be legalised and regulated? I've not heard anyone arguing for the contrary that didn't have a parochial, small-minded attitude towards the subject based on a childish 'fear' of drugs and drug users, whilst they freely go out on the booze and get steaming. Every weekend.

The irony of this is that Britain as a nation LOVES to get off it's head. People who don't drink are viewed as an oddity in this country. And from my own experience, as well as that of many people I know - drink is so often the worst of all drugs, in its affects on behaviour as well as health and its addictive properties.

People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.

 

[grizzleb]

Grizzle's right as well, legality doesn't even come in to it when people want drugs.

That was cobretti btb.

 

[cobretti]

Go on MSN some evening soon Boo, I usually fire it on for a bit most nights and you're never bloody on any more.

Anyhoo, as you were...

 

[massrock]

People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.

It's irrational, but then the fear of 'altered' or unauthorised states is irrational, yet quite real.

However, the brewing industry and the pharmaceutical industry are, as far as they see their business interests, quite rational.

 

[massrock]

But hadn't they taken methadone as well? Which is a class A drug already? The mind boggles...

To be fair they're probably not thinking very clearly. The parents that is.

 

[cobretti]

Does anyone not think that all substances should be legalised and regulated? I've not heard anyone arguing for the contrary that didn't have a parochial, small-minded attitude towards the subject based on a childish 'fear' of drugs and drug users, whilst they freely go out on the booze and get steaming. Every weekend.

The irony of this is that Britain as a nation LOVES to get off it's head. People who don't drink are viewed as an oddity in this country. And from my own experience, as well as that of many people I know - drink is so often the worst of all drugs, in its affects on behaviour as well as health and its addictive properties.

People will always die by ingesting/inhaling/insufflating stuff, if we legalise it, and give people access to the right information (i.e don't tell everyone to down water whilst they are on E therefore killing various overcautious teenagers) then these risks can be seriously minimalised, and we as a society can have a mature attitude towards mind-bending substances.

I don't think the one size fits all 'legalise it' would work at all, I've had the same discussion many times with a friend of mine who insists that drug laws, smoking bans and such are violations of human rights, but that's obviously not the angle you're coming from. You know where I work, right by Glasgow's biggest railway station, between the business area at the west of the city centre, the retail centre bang in the middle, and the relative opulence of Merchant City in the east, and even here it's very easy to see from the people I encounter that legalising heroin for one, would not solve the real problem, which isn't necessarily people falling in to the trap of addiction (and the subsequent stigma attached to asking for help with the problem), but the mindless zombies people become when they just don't give a fuck. It's nice to envisage a world where everyone is respectable and, without things like substance abuse to drag them down, would be living as respectable citizens etc, but unfortunately there are still a minority (questionable in Glasgow at times though ) who will still recklessly abuse whether or not adequate laws and support systems are in place.

You could say that alcohol has the same effect on people but I'd say that's a better case for more restrictive alcohol laws than legalising everything else.

 

[massrock]

Indeed, how many people does water kill every year? I think we should told. And I'll bet a good percentage of those supposed 'alcohol' related deaths actually involved a dangerous cocktail of alcohol, water and god knows what else. This kind of solvent abuse is rife I tell you!

 

[grizzleb]

I don't think the one size fits all 'legalise it' would work at all, I've had the same discussion many times with a friend of mine who insists that drug laws, smoking bans and such are violations of human rights, but that's obviously not the angle you're coming from. You know where I work, right by Glasgow's biggest railway station, between the business area at the west of the city centre, the retail centre bang in the middle, and the relative opulence of Merchant City in the east, and even here it's very easy to see from the people I encounter that legalising heroin for one, would not solve the real problem, which isn't necessarily people falling in to the trap of addiction (and the subsequent stigma attached to asking for help with the problem), but the mindless zombies people become when they just don't give a fuck. It's nice to envisage a world where everyone is respectable and, without things like substance abuse to drag them down, would be living as respectable citizens etc, but unfortunately there are still a minority (questionable in Glasgow at times though ) who will still recklessly abuse whether or not adequate laws and support systems are in place.

You could say that alcohol has the same effect on people but I'd say that's a better case for more restrictive alcohol laws than legalising everything else.

The average age of smack junkies in holland changed from something like 21 to mid 40s when it got legalised iirc. Of course you can't stop people from fucking themselves up - but if you legalise it there are many advantages (depending on your stance). Clean needles and gear meaning less dead people, the fact of its legality means less of a feeling of stigmatization leading to improved sense of self-worth (or certainly one less obstacle anyway), also more prospects for help in getting off the drugs if you want as people are known to the authorities, etc. All this lead me to believe that legalising it would be a good idea.

The point from my perspective is - if your community is one where everyone around you is prospect-less, where crime is almost a part of your culture, where the only pressing avaliable options are to work on the till in asda till you die or get out of your tits for the rest of your days, I know how people end up in that position. For me, it's not the drug which causes the harm per se, it's more the feeling that people have no other option - of your entire community and social mileu being populated with people prone to casual violence and a prevalance towards drug use. People don't give a fuck because they don't see themselves as having the potential to lead a life other than the one that they've been exposed to.

 

[cobretti]

The average age of smack junkies in holland changed from something like 21 to mid 40s when it got legalised iirc. Of course you can't stop people from fucking themselves up - but if you legalise it there are many advantages (depending on your stance). Clean needles and gear meaning less dead people, the fact of its legality means less of a feeling of stigmatization leading to improved sense of self-worth (or certainly one less obstacle anyway), also more prospects for help in getting off the drugs if you want as people are known to the authorities, etc. All this lead me to believe that legalising it would be a good idea.

The point from my perspective is - if your community is one where everyone around you is prospect-less, where crime is almost a part of your culture, where the only pressing avaliable options are to work on the till in asda till you die or get out of your tits for the rest of your days, I know how people end up in that position. For me, it's not the drug which causes the harm per se, it's more the feeling that people have no other option - of your entire community and social mileu being populated with people prone to casual violence and a prevalance towards drug use. People don't give a fuck because they don't see themselves as having the potential to lead a life other than the one that they've been exposed to.

There are many advantages, but also many disadvantages. When you get in to the idea of legalising everything, you have to weigh things life possible lives saved, diseases contracted against things like the possibility of more people becoming addicted to certain drugs, more overdoses from people used to watered down gear or not knowing their limits on a first dose and such. I see where you're coming from but I wouldn't condone it, for it to work you'd have to educate a whole generation before bringing the laws in to effect to avoid the initial shock that would undoubtedly occur should all substances be legalised.

 

[cobretti]

Back on topic, very interesting that on tonight's Channel 4 News there was a report on a Mepehedrone related death and a piece on alcohol destroying people's lives in the North East within half an hour of each hour, but no discussion of the dichotomy between the demonised destructive qualities of illegal drugs and oft trivialised qualities of their legal counterparts, or for that matter their comparative death rates. Ah well, hopefully anyone with half a brain cell will join the dots.

 

[Mr. Tea]

To be fair they're probably not thinking very clearly. The parents that is.

Warning: being a parent of someone who takes recreational drugs could seriously impair your judgement.