Hallucinogens Have Doctors Tuning In Again

[massrock]

Wasn't the article linked to about LSD?

The link is still there. God, am I just being cruel now?

 

[nomadthethird]

The link is still there. God, am I just being cruel now?

Yeah, and the NYTimes has only run about a gazillion of these articles in the past year or so. I've read all of them, so I didn't bother clicking on the link. Most of the rush to rediscover hallucinogens after the gov lightened restrictions has been focused on LSD, so far.

I'd guess that LSD is probably more a little more promising an avenue because its dopimanergic effects are longer lasting and at high concentrations could work without causing a "trip." Would be very nice if it did help with migraines... I'd take it in a heartbeat over the alternatives (opiates, triptans, anticonvulsants, etc).

 

[nomadthethird]

In your FACE, Huxley.

(yes they were talking about fictional Soma)

It amuses me, the hypocrisy of people who want to be able to take their NSAIDs, and their antibiotics, and their immunizations, and chemotherapy when they have cancer, and smoke their weed, and take their vitamins, get the AIDS cocktail if they need it, etc. etc. Science isn't capitalistical then, it's just dandy. It's only when the medicine that treats those other people is discussed that people suddenly find medical treatment modalities utterly dispensable and socially reprehensible.

Strange how that works.

Personally, I think anyone who has the means to make a medicine that works and denies it to someone suffering a medical malady should be legally punished. But, you know, I'm a capitalist pig and a reactionary for caring about medical conditions and pain.

 

[massrock]

I'd guess that LSD is probably more a little more promising an avenue because its dopimanergic effects are longer lasting and at high concentrations could work without causing a "trip."

In the description of that study they seem to be suggesting that they think the trip is part of it.

It amuses me, the hypocrisy of people who want to be able to take their NSAIDs, and their antibiotics, and their immunizations, and smoke their weed, and take their vitamins, get the AIDS cocktail if they need it, etc. etc. Science isn't capitalistical then, it's just dandy. It's only when the medicine that treats those other people is discussed that people suddenly find medical treatment modalities utterly dispensable and socially reprehensible.

I don't think anyone here has suggested that science is capitalistic in itself. Lanugo said something about how some drugs could be 'co-opted' as pacifiers but, oh wait droid already said that.

And it wasn't what Huxley was saying, obv. I don't think he was anti-science for one thing. He was commenting more on human weakness and how he saw the desire for comfort and distraction as leading to a willing embrace of oppression.

 

[droid]

Oh dear.

Soma is used in the treatment of severe anxiety disorders, insomnia, and muscular/back pain. It's no more inherently "capitalistic" than Tylenol is. It's no more implicated in "pacifying" "society" than ibuprofen is. (Unless you're talking about fictional Soma from BNW? Yes yes, medication, it's all about pacifying rather than treating people. Tell me something I haven't heard a million times from 9th grade stoners).

So you read the thread but somehow missed the repeated context in which 'Soma' was used as well as the clear references to Huxley and Brave New world?

I love it when people make big sweeping, generalizations about fields they know absolutely nothing about.

heh. Yeah, i hate that too.

 

[droid]

Oh dear.

Soma is used in the treatment of severe anxiety disorders, insomnia, and muscular/back pain. It's no more inherently "capitalistic" than Tylenol is. It's no more implicated in "pacifying" "society" than ibuprofen is. (Unless you're talking about fictional Soma from BNW? Yes yes, medication, it's all about pacifying rather than treating people. Tell me something I haven't heard a million times from 9th grade stoners).

So you read the thread but somehow missed the repeated context in which 'Soma' was used as well as the references to Huxley and Brave New world?

I love it when people make big sweeping, generalizations about fields they know absolutely nothing about.

hahahaha. Yeah, i love that too.

 

[nomadthethird]

So you read the thread but somehow missed the repeated context in which 'Soma' was used as well as the refernces to Huxley and Brave New world?

Yeah, I totally "missed" it. That's why I noted in my post that I noticed it. Because I didn't notice. I'm really into writing about things I don't notice.

Soma is an older medication that often gets lumped in with other "bad" drugs like valium. It wouldn't have been at all strange in the context of this discussion for someone to bring it up. Well, at least, it wouldn't have been strange for someone who has a shadow of a clue about pharmacology to bring it up.

 

[nomadthethird]

In the description of that study they seem to be suggesting that they think the trip is part of it.

I don't think anyone here has suggested that science is capitalistic in itself. Lanugo said something about how some drugs could be 'co-opted' as pacifiers but, oh wait droid already said that.

And it wasn't what Huxley was saying, obv. I don't think he was anti-science for one thing. He was commenting more on human weakness and how he saw the desire for comfort and distraction as leading to a willing embrace of oppression.

A trip could be part of it, but the goal is always in medicine to reduce side-effects or strength when possible in order to facilitate safest possible use of the medication.

Why "some" drugs? Why is it always a very specific type of drug that's targeted by people like lanugo?

Isn't lanugo the one who wrote all of those AIDS-denialist posts a while back? Yeah, he was.

On second thought, I'd totally expect someone that ignorant and deluded to write something like that.

 

[4linehaiku]

I love it when people make big sweeping, generalizations about fields they know absolutely nothing about.

Hahahahaha.

 

[nomadthethird]

Hahahahaha.

Where did I make a generalization?

Please, show me.

 

[droid]

The context in which the term was used was abundantly clear and it is blatantly obvious to anyone but the most wilfully myopic that 'Soma' was being used in the literary sense.

FYI, Soma was a ritual indian drink long before it became the brand name for Carisoprodol, and in fact there would have been no relevance in the term being used in that context as we're talking about pyschedleics and carisoprodol is a muscle relaxant.

 

[nomadthethird]

The context in which the term was used was abundantly clear and blatantly obvious to anyone but the most wilfully myopic that it was being used in the literay sense.

FYI, Soma was a ritual indian drink long before it became the brand name for Carisoprodol, and in fact it would have made absolutely no sense for the term to be used in that context as we're talking about pyschedleics and carisoprodol is a muscle relaxant.

No, that's obvious to you because you don't listen to people talk about organic chemicals all day every day, including soma. The fact that the word was capitalized made it seem even more likely to me that someone was talking about a brand name. Soma is of a class that is often lumped in as a "capitalistic" drug.

FYI, The brand name "Soma" actually comes from the word for "body" in latin, not from the book BNW. Or from the Indian drink.

 

[massrock]

Why "some" drugs? Why is it always a very specific type of drug that's targeted by people like lanugo?

Probably best if they reply to that themsevels.

But still, I don't think lanugo was targeting the drugs as such, more suggesting that allowing their use would be a cynical move by the powers of Capitalism or the NWO or something. But fuck I don't know, it's not my argument and I didn't say it.

epiphanies on prescription

Interesting, though, that Huxley painted something like this in a much more positive light in Island. Presumably he thought that actual psychedelic experiences were not the same as the pacification of Soma.

 

[droid]

No, that's obvious to you because you don't listen to people talk about organic chemicals all day every day, including soma. Soma is of a class that is often lumped in as a "capitalistic" drug.

Please dont make me quote the multiple references and the utterly clear context in which it was used. Just read the thread again. Start on the first page.

FYI, The brand name "Soma" actually comes from the word for "body" in latin, not from the book BNW. Or from the Indian drink.

You pull this stuff out of thin air dont you?

Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma

 

[nomadthethird]

Please dont make me quote the multiple references and the utterly clear context in which it was used. Just read the thread again. Start on the first page.



You pull this stuff out of thin air dont you?

Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma

I corrected myself, jeezis. I just misremembered the goddamned translation of a word with common LATIN/GREEK/SANSKRIT ROOTS.

You just pull this stuff out of wikipedia, to be an asshole.

The reason why I thought it was "body" is because in biology/chemistry, "somatic" cells are body cells, cf. gametes.

Jesus H. Christ.

 

[nomadthethird]

Yup! Derived from latin, as I suspected.

so·ma 1 (sm)
n. pl. so·ma·ta (-m-t) or so·mas
1. The entire body of an organism, exclusive of the germ cells.
2. See cell body.
3. The body of an individual as contrasted with the mind or psyche.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[New Latin sma, from Greek, body; see teu- in Indo-European roots.]

 

[nomadthethird]

Please dont make me quote the multiple references and the utterly clear context in which it was used. Just read the thread again. Start on the first page.



You pull this stuff out of thin air dont you?

Soma (Sanskrit सोम sóma), or Haoma (Avestan), from Proto-Indo-Iranian *sauma

Be my guest. Quote all the references you like.

The only reason to capitalize the word soma, and make it a proper noun, would seem to be because you're indicating a brand name.

IIRC, in the book, "soma" was not capitalized.

 

[nomadthethird]

I'm still waiting for someone to point out my egregious "generalizations".

 

[droid]

Yup! Derived from latin, as I suspected.

Except of course that Sanskrit predates Old Latin by about a millenium.

 

[nomadthethird]

Except of course that Sanskrit predates Old Latin by about a millenium.

So? The development of language historically means that we didn't grab the word directly from Sanskrit, but that it has a long history of being used by cultures, from Greeks, to Romans, and then into romance languages and eventually English. Latin is actually a much more likely source; more Europeans know and knew Latin than ever knew Sanskrit.

Anyway, what does any of this have to do with my actual point? You're just deflecting and trying to make people think I'm saying something weird, or wrong. But you haven't actually defended the points that I refuted. You're just aggressively nitpicking details, leaving what I actually said unaddressed.