blackdown soundboy on standards of grime lyricism

cooper

Well-known member
mms said:
hence my beef about 'postive rasta' jammer's first mc track being a post pow track about being the merkle man and going for the metal.
call me the rappin reverend but i'm not into that. he can do what he likes but that much inconsistency looks a bit messy.

But isn't that just the same as dancehall? Not that I'm a Stelfox but I was under the impression that many popular dancehall artists tend to flip-flop between religious exhortation and glorification of violence, like when 50 Cent thanks God in his liner notes.
 
sean downes said:
but yeah, let's stop comparing uk mcs to us ones (especially rakim, the most overrated mc in rap history), i thought it was already established that garage mcing is a completely different style that relies on completely different cultural and enviromental signifiers.

rakim...the most overrated mc...close this thread man...what the f***....great mc's being mentioned in te same breath as garage ones jus doesnt add up but I guess this is jus evident of the hunger for the UK to claim something as 'ours' I guess....
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
Tactics said:
rakim...the most overrated mc...close this thread man...what the f***....great mc's being mentioned in te same breath as garage ones jus doesnt add up but I guess this is jus evident of the hunger for the UK to claim something as 'ours' I guess....

exactly. i LOVE grime and the MCs' energy, i still know half of the MCing is borderline shit though. i find it funny people cant admit it. im starting to wonder how long people have thought critically about MCing. maybe the first time they heard 'oi', lol. i guess thats what you get from listeners coming from mainly rock or other genres' to a music like grime.
 
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mms

sometimes
cooper said:
But isn't that just the same as dancehall? Not that I'm a Stelfox but I was under the impression that many popular dancehall artists tend to flip-flop between religious exhortation and glorification of violence, like when 50 Cent thanks God in his liner notes.

yeah but he hasn't even flip flopped, and i don't think dancehall dj's really do that to a great extent.
 

luka

Well-known member
man, i can't beleive you took the bait! it was a worm with your name written on it
 

nomos

Administrator
lol. it's true. he ate the worm.

no need to lock the thread as there's plenty of relevant stuff to talk about still. take, for instance, Fiddy's ruminations on the matter which can be read here and discussed in the space provided below (preferably with reference to the blackdown piece).
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
after thinking about this subject and listening to various grime mixtapes, i have to say that i still dont think there are many MCs who carry over that well to making actual records, actual songs. but theyre all great on pirate radio sessions. i dont care much for say, prangman, but when i hear d double ripping it on rinse as i did on sunday, its the best thing ever. i dont think MCs have mastered the art of making songs yet (but it might come with time) and apart from that, to be honest, i find a lot of MCs pretty unlistenable!

people used to say rapping simply didnt come off that well to british MCs, and well, apart from various exceptions over the years both in grime and uk hip hop, i kinda have to say, im not sure my position has changed much on that. thats probably kinda harsh, but for me at least, while i do love dizzee, wiley, d double, kano, the best thing about grime is really still the beats. terror danjah's beats for example, sound great with or without an mc, and one good thing about hearing them alone is you get to hear all these little brilliant details you might not have done when someone is shouting on top of it. i can only imagine how good wonder's remix of hype hype must be without the mcs on top of it!
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
"I've got the leaders of the new skool. I've got em – I know who they are. They are Scorcher... [turns around to start compiling chart of grime's future] Skepta's getting a bit old, he's pushing on, but he'll be there. Bashy. These people, they're in the game. It's like they want to show me how good they are. Can you imagine that? I'm just a dad – or a granddad, they call me. And they're in the booth, they're trying to show me what they can do. And I'm like, well that means that despite the wars and despite everything, you do actually look to me for an ‘ok', or a tick in the box or something, but they do look. And that's a good thing. That means they haven't just been here to clash with me. They actually learned off me before they even knew me! That's a good thing."

was reading that wiley interview and i dont really think hes OTM there. there isnt really anyone thats really as distinct or memorable as any of the guys that have been around for a few years coming through, far as i can tell.
 

viktorvaughn

Well-known member
hahaha...

slightly unrelated: would like to see some grime MCs murking Blade. I fucking despise that shitty excuse for an MC. "You've been around for years mate...WELL DONE. Oh, are you writing a new song about being true to your sound and staying positive? Shit, how did you ever think of that?". For me, he stands for everything that is dull, restrictive, pious, "worthy", pointless and SAFE about hip hop. Just coz he's been around for yonks, the dude is BAIT. He should quit. Let's unleash Scratchy and Trim on him or some shit. Fuck, I'd do it meself.

Sorry everyone, but I really hate Blade, and what that shit stands for, and most of his audience. that to me is the polar opposite of all that's exciting 'bout grime.

has anyone heard that new Blade track on Channel U? fake Premier beat, lyrics all about how's he stuck at it for years. makes me wanna kill...

lol...That is so true, i fucking hate Blade! He epitomises everything shit about UKHH. I know it gets knocked in favour of Grime, but there have been some class albums - Brand New Second Hand and the Klasnekoff one spring to mind.
 

mos dan

fact music
lol...That is so true, i fucking hate Blade! He epitomises everything shit about UKHH. I know it gets knocked in favour of Grime, but there have been some class albums - Brand New Second Hand and the Klasnekoff one spring to mind.

lol at Blade. 'Hip-Hop Backpackers Get the Gasface!!', as the hilariously-named MySpace group puts it.

Really interesting reading through this thread - I had no idea Dissensus was here until about nine months ago (sorry).
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
the other thing ive been thinking about w/r/t grime MCing is that apart from a few MCs, its like they dont really spend much time writing their bars. they just seem to dash them off. which is fine in some instances, and great for the live moment, but it doesnt really mean theres much to return to after youve heard it once or twice. or it means there isnt much there to really grab onto the first time either. its fine if the flows and energy are amazing or whatever but it would be nice if guys spent a bit of time on what they were writing too (and i dont mean they have to write some deep meaningful dissertation, just to clarify). this isnt everyone obviously, i love that skepta verse about 'lets go deeper...' and trim obviously is into his craft, but a lot of guys just seem to not really care.
 

mms

sometimes
lol at Blade. 'Hip-Hop Backpackers Get the Gasface!!', as the hilariously-named MySpace group puts it.

Really interesting reading through this thread - I had no idea Dissensus was here until about nine months ago (sorry).
funny cos when blade started
he was the 1990 equivalent to grime... street, independent, not chatting in a us accent...
 

gumdrops

Well-known member
from what i remember his beats were pretty much the same as american ones from the time, its just that his themes, subject matter, focus etc was quite londoncentric. i havent heard those records in years though so not sure how they wouls stand up now.
 

mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
from what i remember his beats were pretty much the same as american ones from the time, its just that his themes, subject matter, focus etc was quite londoncentric. i havent heard those records in years though so not sure how they wouls stand up now.

I liked 'Mind of an Ordinary Citizen' when it came out, he seemed to have got his beats 'right' - alot of the Uk hiphop at the time, the production was so-so at best, which sounds endearing now but at the time it was just annoying that we couldn't do it as 'good' as the yanks.
 

mms

sometimes
I liked 'Mind of an Ordinary Citizen' when it came out, he seemed to have got his beats 'right' - alot of the Uk hiphop at the time, the production was so-so at best, which sounds endearing now but at the time it was just annoying that we couldn't do it as 'good' as the yanks.

pretty much all uk hip hop was engineered by a bloke called no sleep nigel, the sound was grimey, a bit noisey, with a touch of dancehall, which is what made it good, there were some good bands, one called hardnoise, who went on to be a hardcore group, who's records you could play the instrumentals of at 45 and there you go, instant hardcore!
alot of uk hip hoppers from the time did this stuff, then you got the kingpin, simon harris from music of life, who was doing hip hop and dance music at the same time, all those mcs went to rave.
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
pretty much all uk hip hop was engineered by a bloke called no sleep nigel, the sound was grimey, a bit noisey, with a touch of dancehall, which is what made it good, there were some good bands, one called hardnoise, who went on to be a hardcore group, who's records you could play the instrumentals of at 45 and there you go, instant hardcore!
alot of uk hip hoppers from the time did this stuff, then you got the kingpin, simon harris from music of life, who was doing hip hop and dance music at the same time, all those mcs went to rave.

yeah hardnoise were interesting. I loved the Demon Boyz - still do - but I always thought Harris' production was limited, I just wanted him to use another drum machine instead of whatever he was using ( what was that that made that flat electro-ish sound? ).

It just seemed to me that we were trying to get to somewhere without the equipment, after the first Def Jam stuff it was just over for me for UK hiphop production wise, even Hijack. I like it more now though.
 
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