Jackin' / Electroline

[Benny Bunter]

VERY BAD MUSIC. why have these sounds been so omnipresent for so long? it'sbeenten years. why aren't we sick of this shit yet?I'm no expert here but isn't this justsort of sub-swedish house mafia chart fodder? Trance Pack Synth Chorus DeathI feel bad that I'm popping up in the Music forum just to say "this is terrible", but...thisisterrible.spawn of guetta intit crapThe Circle threadcame to mind for me as well, but at least theCircle guys were copying a pretty decentcontinental movement, whereas thisis well, simply unpleasant..notreallyanythingnew,thisthepoppierendofthebounce/scousehouse/donk stuff has sounded like this for years. that clubland channel on skyisbasically just this music actually.you trying to say that the bassline heads havegoneto this? quite disappointing.Sounds like the worst kind of electrohousewith the addition of naff vocals.amazed this actually still existsIt's really weird to me that people are trying to push it as some"next step in the continuum" because it's basicallyjust what scousehouse/donk/bounce sounds like in 2012. it's the same old tired drum patterns, same synth ideas, terribleMCs.This stuff isinterchangable withthe music I've been hearing in bars andwalking away from up North for years and years.Yeah but that's just theDee Pattentune sampled in the breakdown isn't it.i listened to that marcus nasty 060612mix in the original blog post and was baffled, i dont think i would have clocked it wasanything new/distinct if someone hadnt said it is. plus whats up with all the bait refixes, faithless, lilly allen, "i know what iswhat but what tha fuck" etc? sounded like an ibiza set... honestly i'm not even sure if i heard the right mix haha.i'll have the beneath dubs, you have the faithless refixes andlets call it quits...'m still not very keen on this stuff, and I kind of resent the wayit's as if we're all now 'supposed' to like it just because Marcus or other people who've previously been involved in good music are into it.im reallytorn on this stuff,first I heard of it was seeing Marcus Nasty playing live and there was some reallyinteresting dark stuff, but most of the some I have come across since sounds a bit too cheesyand wigan-pier-ish for my likingOh yeah you're right this isn't just generic eurobig room tech house..Aint Jackin is it, just another generic 90s house thing remadeinto a boring big room euro tech house template innit. Its by an old house guy born in the 70s in the USno where close to jackin which is the new vital northen scene. The internetisalready ruining this scene damn it I mean I'm teasing but jeeez come on this shit isso close to the usual tech house stuff its unreal. Embrace it.Oh yeah jackin aint justtechy euroblog house 2.0 you're right...'regular as innotfardissimilartopopulardeepnotdeephotcreay/maceoplex/whateverstuffyeaWednesday, 9January2013 15:40(4daysago)Bookmark Flag PostPermalinkI can see that, yeah. Ican hear a lot ofthat sound in jackin overall., Wednesday, 9 January 2013 15:47 (4 days ago) Bookmark Flag PostPermalink'Bar the owls ofcoursethey're stright up minimal blog house bassline.

 

[Corpsey]

From what I've heard I'm not exactly bugging out over the innovativeness of this stuff but there are tunes that make me screwface and I have seen a dancefloor go mad to 'Coke Diet', 'Away We Go' etc. That's enough for me to want to go to more raves playing this stuff, anyway.

TBH I think I've had my entire perspective on music recalibrated by being on Dissensus, though - I was listening to some of the El-B tunes for the nuum poll last night and I swear it all sounds so drily meticulous and furrow-browed to me now, whereas before I would have loved those tunes precisely for how meticulous and 'serious' they are. Then I read Energy Flash and started posting here and suddenly I'm... what's the word 'popist'?

I dunno man, as unsubtle as this stuff is at least it seems FUN (what Reynolds says about not fearing cheesiness but actually embracing it resonates here)... And it might sound exactly like tech house, but I've never really listened to tech house so that doesn't matter to me, whereas when I hear 'Au Sevre' say I just hear a tepid rip-off of the NY Garage sound I HAVE heard. MIND YOU I realise instantly that in the Marcus podcast I first heard this stuff in he plays 'Au Sevre' and they rewind it.

 

[Corpsey]

btw comparing bassline and jackin' - just wondering, aren't they part of the same scene? I assumed jackin' was just a sort of evolution or branching off of bassline. Aren't they both located in sheffield/brum?

 

[datwun]

Elijah:
That night was wicked!!! Probably my best night out all 2012 (apart from NYE 2012/2013...) Big up ya chest for that!
Marcus' set smashed it up too - THAT was the first time I had ever heard jackin and it just sounded so weird and different - like the way the jackin bass fills a space when played on a massive system - hollow and rounded and bouncy - is totally different to the sound pallet of funky and grime etc. Complimented the rest of the vybez very well (though Champion dropping Mosquito was /THE/ moment of the night for me )

Benny B:
LOL that's a brilliant compilation, thanks
Maybe it's good to have the haters though, 'Hatas our motivation' etc.

btw comparing bassline and jackin' - just wondering, aren't they part of the same scene? I assumed jackin' was just a sort of evolution or branching off of bassline. Aren't they both located in sheffield/brum?

Sheffield's actually not part of the jackin sphere of influence. I never paid attention when Zomby was banging on about how 'Bassline House' and 'Niche' were two different things which happened to sound really similar, but it turns out that the bassline house scene from /Leeds/ and Brum lead onto jackin, while the Sheffield niche scene didn't feed into it.

For me jackin's /innovative enough/. It uses sounds from across the history of northern/uk dance music but isn't beholden to them - it's only interested as far is it can use them for it's own ends NOW, and isn't particularly self-concious about it, it's more like 'an organ would work in this tune'.

The warp-donk-owl is a sound you hear a little bit all the way back in speed garage, and you hear it hidden under layers of mid range in bassline. The innovation is to isolate it and give it space to breath, focussing in on the possibilities of that sound in particular. You could call it a one-step-backwards two-steps-forwards move, relating to speed garage like tech-step related to the unfulfilled potentials of belgian industrial techno, or you could see it related to speed garage as trap does to early 2000s crunk - the same scene morphed through over ten years of sonic and technological innovation.

So yeah, jackin is future enough to me - dancing to it is different to dancing to speed garage and that's about all the modernism dance music needs.

But the innovation's not the important part really, no. What's important is that if you go on to bigtunesmp3, any of the artists soundclouds, or Certified Jackin, every week you are GUARANTEED to find maybe 5, 10, 15 WICKED trax, and maybe 3 or 4 that you REALLY love.

I don't know the last time you could have said that about any UK scene, that it was producing so much great stuff so regularly.

We are riding the #jackinwave

 

[Benny Bunter]

TBH I think I've had my entire perspective on music recalibrated by being on Dissensus, though - I was listening to some of the El-B tunes for the nuum poll last night and I swear it all sounds so drily meticulous and furrow-browed to me now, whereas before I would have loved those tunes precisely for how meticulous and 'serious' they are. Then I read Energy Flash and started posting here and suddenly I'm... what's the word 'popist'?
.

a lot of the ideas being knocked around on that ilx thread jimi linked to, springing from the discussion of DJ Q's approach and more recently jackin seem otm to me, maybe the only decent post-reynolds critique I've read and perhaps pointing a way out of this whole nuum conundrum. And note it is done without snottily rejecting the idea wholesale (or even really explicitly referring to it) but building upon it and updating it.

 

[datwun]

maybe the only decent post-reynolds critique I've read and perhaps pointing a way out of this whole nuum conundrum. And note it is done without snottily rejecting the idea wholesale (or even really explicitly referring to it) but building upon it and updating it.

What is the critique exactly? Would be nice to see it summed up here!

For what it's worth - to me jackin represents the first /successful/ post-internet evolution of the nuum. By that I mean that the internet wasn't kind to UK funky - it lead to a lot of unproductice semantic confusion such as Joy Orbison and Pariah emo 2-step tunes (which I loved and still love!) being labled as UK funky in record stores, on blogs and stuff, it lead to funky being 'discovered' and plundered as an 'influence' before it even had the chance to mature as a scene and sound etc.

By contrast Jackin seems to have it's relationship with the internet sorted. It's a local scene, based largely in two cities but which is popular throughout the north and midlands, the producers know each other personally and are perhaps the biggest source of influence upon each other, but it's not a purist scene in that they still seek influences from other places (using the internet), but ultimately to bring them back and work them into the body of jackin. They all use facbeook, soundcloud etc. but just as a /tool/ for promo, connecting with their fans, without their music /sounding like the internet/. it's a lot!

 

[Benny Bunter]

well your best off reading the thread. Like I say its not like a structured critique or anything, just a result of close observation of the uk garage interzone over the last few years as epitomised by DJ Q's selection, and Marcus Nasty's championing of non-london stuff i suppose. I would post some quotes but its all a mite embarassing nicking stuff from there all the time!

 

[Benny Bunter]

I suppose one thing i like about it is that hand-wringing over innovation doesn't really stifle the discussion much, which i guess is what can happen when you go too far down the reynolds route (takes one to know one )

 

[UFO over easy]

By contrast Jackin seems to have it's relationship with the internet sorted. It's a local scene, based largely in two cities but which is popular throughout the north and midlands, the producers know each other personally and are perhaps the biggest source of influence upon each other, but it's not a purist scene in that they still seek influences from other places (using the internet), but ultimately to bring them back and work them into the body of jackin. They all use facbeook, soundcloud etc. but just as a /tool/ for promo, connecting with their fans, without their music /sounding like the internet/. it's a lot!

every aspect of this was true of funky as well.. and of dubstep

or do you not see it that way?


ps: i am not trying to make myself part of a "jackin is shit/ no jackin is really great" conversation, and none of that stuff benny quoted is anything i back

 

[Leo]

just curious, is it actually "popular throughout the north and midlands"? if you asked the average dance music fan in those areas about it, they would actually know what jackin' is, and claim to like it? cool if so but seems surprising.

 

[wise]

RE-Todd Terry youtube clip

I didn't know that alias and it being first thing in the morning thought it was a Lorenzo tune, played it and thought ah great a Jackin tune I really like!

That's a bit unfair as there are quite a few tunes I really like (Homeless,50k,Rubber No Doubt,Snapbacks, that one with mc that sounds a bit like Wiley on wearing my rolex "You Want Me",etc).
But on the whole i'm still baffled by what you guys see in it.
Benny I know you have great taste (like mine ) so i'm inclined to listen to your opinion and it's hard not to be won over by Datwun's enthusiasm but when I go on Bigtunes I just don't hear loads of great tunes, I hear the odd one or two if I search really hard.
and while i'm no Jackin hater I can see Jimi's point about fidget/blog house whatever, it does sound very similar.
The standard Jackin bass sound bores the socks off me, but i'm into the floatiness of the owls
Datwun's list of Darkside Jackin was very disappointing, got any recommendations for stuff like Homeless & 50k? more bassliney I guess

 

[wise]

this ones not bad

http://soundcloud.com/nick-hannam/nick-hannam-selecta

 

[wise]

http://soundcloud.com/ryanjamesmusic/wanna-be-like-a-man-lorenzo

 

[wise]

http://soundcloud.com/ryanjamesmusic/nick-hannam-ryan-james-sleep

this one sounds a bit faster than most I'd probably be more into it if I listened to them pitched up a bit, what tempo do proper Jackin DJs play at?
I know Marcus knocks them up a fair bit

 

[Benny Bunter]

RE-Todd Terry youtube clip

I didn't know that alias and it being first thing in the morning thought it was a Lorenzo tune, played it and thought ah great a Jackin tune I really like!

That's a bit unfair as there are quite a few tunes I really like (Homeless,50k,Rubber No Doubt,Snapbacks, that one with mc that sounds a bit like Wiley on wearing my rolex "You Want Me",etc).
But on the whole i'm still baffled by what you guys see in it.
Benny I know you have great taste (like mine ) so i'm inclined to listen to your opinion and it's hard not to be won over by Datwun's enthusiasm but when I go on Bigtunes I just don't hear loads of great tunes, I hear the odd one or two if I search really hard.
and while i'm no Jackin hater I can see Jimi's point about fidget/blog house whatever, it does sound very similar.
The standard Jackin bass sound bores the socks off me, but i'm into the floatiness of the owls
Datwun's list of Darkside Jackin was very disappointing, got any recommendations for stuff like Homeless & 50k? more bassliney I guess

lol I am quite pleased with my evocation of Todd Terry - I think the spirit of it essentially the same: pinching wholesale from absolutely anywhere, anything that works, hip-hop colliding with house, the incessant output, the intensification of 'mainstream dance maneuvres' (quoting tim here i think) ,the dark sense of humour, the complete confidence in what they're doing. Terry might be an even better comparison than hardcore actually.

This electro house/tech house thing is obviously the boogieman here. I dunno, like corpsey mentioned earlier, I know sweet FA about tech house, don't really 'know' it and therefore I'm enjoying these type of basslines. But still there is an x-factor element that distinguishes it for me - I don't think anyone has played me any fidget house track that has sounded quite like the vibe these guys are on. I can hear the influence of garage all over many of these tracks, and there is much more rhythmic inventiveness and bounce going on in the 4x4 beats than people are giving it credit for, and I don't think electro basslines like these have ever really been employed quite in this way before.

Aside from all that, so many tunes with great production! Lorenzo's stuff in particular (with Chris Gresswell, Nick Hannam, Shorterz stuff not far behind) just slays. If you don't think tunes like these bang then I don't really know what else to say, its not for you.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The more hip hoppier Jackin gets, the more I like it.

Rubber no doubt - Chris Gresswell and Sweet beat.

On a bit of a different vibe from Cause and Affect, just been alerted to this beaut

Wise, did you listen to this Cause and Affect tune? I think you'd like it.

 

[Benny Bunter]

The standard Jackin bass sound bores the socks off me, but i'm into the floatiness of the owls

 

[datwun]

every aspect of this was true of funky as well.. and of dubstep

or do you not see it that way?


ps: i am not trying to make myself part of a "jackin is shit/ no jackin is really great" conversation, and none of that stuff benny quoted is anything i back

Well with dubstep I feel that it started as an essentially pre-internet (pre widespread adoption of broadband, pre-social media, pre the internet being 100% totally mainstream) and that gave dubstep a nice long incubation period in the underground to hone a sense of identity to resist the de-territorialising effects of internet exposure.

With funky I suppose you can talk about 2006-2007 being an incubation period in the underground, but by 2008 it was already 'discovered' and 2009 people were already talking about it dying as a club scene, it becoming something other than what they wanted it to be - the return of its fans and producers into deep and tech house etc. Certainly by 2010 the vast bulk of great funky tunes were being made by a very small selection of producers (Roska, T.Williams, Lil Silva) and I always had a sense of it deterritorializing too quickly, becoming a 'flavour' in the sound pallets of producers outside the scene but in a way that kind of leached energy out of the scene itself. Difficult to prove the internet connection but it did feel like a case of the internet colliding with a local scene and the local scene loosing out...

Datwun's list of Darkside Jackin was very disappointing

Shake It to me is like the exact reason I love Jackin - that ridiculously long ambient intro with the "I heard a song that really expresses this feeling of loneliness" schmaltzy getting-people-weeping-on-the-dancefloor vybe then into that cave-system deep-and-hollow bassline... to each their own I guess~

On the bassline/midrange tip Nastee Boi's EP was banging! (though is technically exclusive so you have to pay £20 for the pleasure!)


In fact, I hadn't heard this one, but it's even got a bassline vocal on it!

I can't tell how much I like this song and how much I just like that it's called BRRRAP and goes BRRRAP

Wobbler

"last night I had a good time though, don't think I should've had that last line though"

what tempo do proper Jackin DJs play at?
I know Marcus knocks them up a fair bit

Marcus plays them at about 132, I think most of them play at 128-130. Just a guess though, I find 126 faaaaar too slow (and by 132 they definitely sound/feel like they're being pitched up), and at 2:31 I found everything to be bouncing along nicely, but then... I was... mashed...

lol I am quite pleased with my evocation of Todd Terry... Terry might be an even better comparison than hardcore actually.

I've never listened to Todd Terry, but this makes me want to! Still think hardcore's an obvious touchpoint for the stuff, just the energy of it, the silliness, will-to-entertain. For me another big one is Basement Jaxx and Groove Armada. Kitchen sink UK house. Think I might have mentioned it here before, but Reynolds once wrote that he wished there was an entire scene of music based around tracks like 'Where's your head at', rather than it being a one off, and I feel like jackin IS that scene.

But still there is an x-factor element that distinguishes it for me... I can hear the influence of garage all over many of these tracks, and there is much more ryhythmic inventiveness going on in the 4x4 beats than people are giving it credit for, and I don't think electro basslines like these have ever really been employed quite in this way before.

Yup yup yup!
Was chatting to Lorenzo the other day and he was talking about how he's going through a Groove Chronicles phrase at the moment and was listening to all of their stuff, loving their drums. I asked him what he thought distinguished jackin from other house apart from the basslines and he instantly replied 'the drums' - how that skip and swing is very important to them. Jackin tunes are rhythmically explosive, they've got all the tics and twitches, boings, bleeps, fuzzes, all the trap stuff, while still retaining the propulsion of the 4x4.

I do sometimes wonder if it would be fun to see more jackin with a 2-step or funky beat or something.

Actually there are a couple of tunes which do the jackin-funky thing.

Burkie - "Take Care - UK Funky Jackin mix)"

Shay & Sinister - Havin' it Large ft. Shantie MC

The bass /almost/ makes this a jackin-2-step I think
http://www.bigtunesmp3.co.uk/tunes/sensitivity-by-ste-w-prodz/

It's difficult to separate how well the non-straight-4x4-jackin experiment works from the tune more generally. I think they're all decent - really loved the Burkie one when I first heard it - though nothing particularly special. Could be that the bass just really suits a straight - if twitchy - house beat, or it could be that it's just W.I.P...

 

[NATO]

Benny that Lorenzo mix is great, just listened to it. What a hitmaker he is.

 

[mrfaucet]

this one sounds a bit faster than most I'd probably be more into it if I listened to them pitched up a bit

I've had this same feeling about jackin tunes too, sometimes they just feel... slow. NATO has played me a few jackin tunes, some I quite like but I think similar to a lot of people I'm not really sold on it (yet). Haven't heard them played in a club though yet in fairness.