Obama V. Romney

crackerjack

Well-known member
you'll be hard pushed to find any evidence that our contemporary fiscal conservatives have had a material impact on the size of the American government

Why's it always have to be about the size of govt? Inequality has increased everywhere other than Latin America (where it simply started from a higher base) over the last 3-4 decades. I think that's a pretty decent measure of a rightward shift.
 

crackerjack

Well-known member
which is all to say that, no, I don't agree with your shift to the lift, or liberalization, or whatever.

and as far as that fringe, yes, most of them were probably voting GOP (if they were voting at all, of course) but they were doing so relatively quietly. .

And presumably many feel the growth of the overtly political religious right and its media echo chamber in talk radio/Fox has legitimised their views and, in many cases, encouraged them to move further right.

And obviously pre-Johnson/southern strategy, many of the Angry White Guys had less to be angry about and were voting Democrat.
 

vimothy

yurp
Do you have a graph that deducts defense spending from expenditure?

Ah, you could probably make one if you could be bothered to fiddle about in FRED for a bit. Defence spending as a share of income is decreasing, even though, as your graph shows, the absolute level of real spending is increasing:

usgs_line.php
 
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droid

Guest
I dunno.

I'd say that Europe is just travelling along the curve at a faster rate, but that we're both going in the same direction. The European centre would be regarded as quite far left 40 years ago. The same is true of America. But when you one to the other at any moment, it looks like its travelling to the right.

...yeah. Completely disagree ala Padraig. We've had this discussion already anyway.

White hot sphere of rage for 2016?

 

vimothy

yurp
I'm not sure if I understand Padraig's argument, to be quite honest.

50 years ago abortion was illegal in the US, racial segregation was legal, immigration was majority white European, sodomy was a felony in every state, etc, etc.
 

luka

Well-known member
wasnt he talking about labour laws union movement, more equal distributuion of wealth cetera
 
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droid

Guest
Yes we have a patina of social liberalism now that's true.

We also have the decimation of the labor movement, gargantuan increases in corporate power, stagnation or decline in real wages (in the US) for the vast majority of workers, the rollback of welfare states, the concentration of power and media in private hands, rampant privatisation of state assets, the massively increased influence of globalised financial markets and institutions, the atomisation and political disenfranchisement of populations.

It may be more accurate to say that rather than a swing to the right, we have simply had an obliteration of the core ideas of the left. The new deal, the welfare state, the NHS, - it is almost completely inconceivable that any of these would be implemented, or even contemplated today.
 

vimothy

yurp
It seems to me that we've had the continuous victory of the left for about two centuries, modulo some temporary setbacks and instrumental changes.
 

vimothy

yurp
It's hard to see how this is arguable--except with respect to the economy, and that in a more recent time frame.
 

luka

Well-known member
what droid is saying, i think is, powerful people are still in power, not only still in power but more powerful than ever before.
 
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droid

Guest
It seems to me that we've had the continuous victory of the left for about two centuries, modulo some temporary setbacks and instrumental changes.

Yeah, so you keep saying, despite the fact that today we have pretty much the greatest concentration of wealth and power in private hands since the industrial revolution.
 

luka

Well-known member
what you are saying, i think, is that those powerful people are much nicer to us than ever before.
 

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
I don't understand how the current European central ground would have been regarded as far left in the 1970s, at least in economic terms. Wealth inequalities that are accepted by all centrist parties nowadays, would have been far less thinkable/tolerated by the electorate then, surely? A party like Labour was in the 1970s/1980s simply wouldn't get elected now, because it would be considered way too leftist (and was already by the early 80s, I guess)
 

vimothy

yurp
Modulo is basically a mathematical operator that gives you a remainder. 4 modulo 2 is 0, because 4 divided by 2 is 2 remainder 0. 5 modulo 2 is 1, because 5 divided by 2 is 2 remainder 1.

People use it in sentences in the sense of "give or take". So "A is equivalent to B modulo C" means, "A is more or less the same as B, give or take C".
 
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