Benny Bunter

Well-known member
pete tong is a british dj

doesnt he have a radio show on our airwaves thats plays at least some uk dance music

or mary anne hobbs, she may've fallen off but im sure shes still devoted to pushing fresh underground sounds right

boiler room have gone international but they still keep their finger on the pulse back home, arent they right next door to coronet which hosts a small event every now and then by that audiowhore whats on ra and all them flyers

amine edge were featured in the metro who remixed carnao beats who played at audio rehabs party in ministry of sound to a credible crowd and zero coverage

maybe when keysound recordings get there we'll see stories about this new exciting sound packing out clubs and getting the capital moving again ja or

can you provide me a simple answer for why in london this london thing is not getting any london hype or have i gone a bit further than you know ?

well one of the nice things about this scene is that a small group of independent self-sufficient labels is holding it up (funky was a complete shambles with regards to this). Dunno about keysound, but wouldn´t be surprised if Kode 9 picks up on some (selected) artists at some point, closely followed by FACT 2 years late, by which time we´d be better off moving onto something else.
 

Benny Bunter

Well-known member
also, a bit disappointed to see the old ´Fruity loops = untutored raw street music´ canard cropping up again, a hangover from the old grime days i guess.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
let the scene stay underground, who cares about mainstream coverage, that's what ruins things, have we learned nothing?
 
I wouldn't put it down to social media rather than journalists actually going to club nights. Number one the live sets are easily available on Soundcloud & audio rehab have a busier release rate than the vast majority of labels in any genre. Number 2. the music press have form for ignoring/ downplaying the importance of 'London music', despite the fact that Mixmag, Muzik, Ministry magazine etc. are/ were all based in the capital- they were always MUCH more interested in what was going on up north. Is there something about hearing a black or cockney MC hosting (not even spitting) over a pirate show that makes 'the mainstream' dump their radios in the bin never to flick through the FM dial again. Blackdown might have a thing or two to say about that given that he worked or freelanced for Mixmag ten years ago.

To be fair London often does itself favours with the genre names. Garridge (stolen from the better known US variant), Funky (stolen after international house had used it for a decade or more). Now this scene which they seem to just call 'house', it's bound to piss a journalist off. But what I would love to see would be an article that took five of the most prominent DJs in the international or not Hardcore Contiuum scene that is most similar to this shuffling stuff (tech house or whatever it might be, I'm not clued up on the genre distinctions), and tried really hard to sell them on it. I'm sure you could sell some of the on it.
 

datwun

Well-known member
also, a bit disappointed to see the old ´Fruity loops = untutored raw street music´ canard cropping up again, a hangover from the old grime days i guess.

I've been chatting a lot with one of the Area 8 boys recently, and he uses Fruity Loops, and talking to him about production and stuff is enlightening. He doesn't really know what he's doing lol, but he's making absolute bangerz. Would say that some of that fruity loops vibe is actually true, even if it doesn't mean you can't produce very very polished sounding stuff on fruity loops

Also, totally missed this out first time round:
http://www.beatport.com/track/esperanto-juggler-original-mix/4731085

Know Dusky gets a let of flack for being pretty uninspiring a lot of the time, but this one's hard and would easy fit into a deep tech set.
 
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Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I've a lot of (probably misinformed) opinions re: the lack of coverage of scenes like deep tech and UK funky vs post dub step and bass music e.g. essentially I think it's to do with how unappealing to writers and readers music without conceptual baggage attached to it is.

I'm a naturally lazy person unfortunately but I'd like to establish a web site/publication to cover this stuff that gets ignored. I don't know that you can say that a website like Fact e.g. has a responsibility to cover this music if they're not feeling it. People who are feeling it need to be those voices. It's tough though without a media platform. A guy writing on a blog is a lone voice who can't help but be drowned out.

I dunno if this is relevant but I've been wondering about this for a long time...
 

continuum

smugpolice
Imo there are myriad reasons why Deep Tech hasn't been picked up fully yet by the mainstream dance media:

1. Politics - especially within House which is so well established no one is going to like some new ting coming in and threatening their money.
2. Lack of understanding - most well known names are so entrenched with what they are doing they completely miss the point of the new sound and what it's about. Is easier to simply dismiss it.
3. Lack of talent - Anyone who thinks that the well known people are the most talented out there are as lost as they are.
4. Lethargy - Those that might have realised something new and exciting is happening aren't reacting quick enough and missing all the truly amazing developments. This is nothing new, especially since the internet age where anyone with the right idea, a keyboard and a connection can be on the cutting edge. Magazines and what not stand no chance. They are slowly dying out though and eventually the internet will be all that remains. When that time comes those that are already there will prosper.
5. Passion - Reason for what is happening from a lot of producer, DJs and ravers isn't based on a business model or branding etc. It comes from the heart and is done because it has to be done. Whether it is successful in the mainstream is irrelevant to many.
 
If anything FACT are more London centric than most of the national music press. If they don't like this sort of stuff that's fine, but it gets to a point where music quality doesn't matter as taste is subjective. Surely it counts for something when London is almost bigger than all the other British cities put together and can lay claim to being perhaps the dance music capital of the world in terms of radio, clubs, shops, creating new genres etc. If anything it should be over-represented in the media, instead it's under-represented.

Have a think on this. This type of music is meant to be the current London Massive genre taking over from Funky, Grime & Dubstep. Paul Oakenfold, Danny Rampling and the half dozen people they brought to Ibiza in '87 would clearly belong to that demographic. I can fully appreciate that none of those DJ's made the move over to rave or jungle- that stuff wasn't to their taste. I can understand why they all stopped playing on pirates over twenty years ago- they were more wealthy by that stage. But why have two decades of say, trance DJs, born & bred Londoners not set up their own pirates? I suppose what I'm getting at here is that all of us here probably have preconceptions of what defines a London sound, but such a large proportion of DJ's & producers in 'mainstream' dance music hail from the capital don't embrace the local genres.
 
Also just to say that I'm not trying to hype up this scene to the point where it gets it's own Ministry Sound Deep Tech Anthems Xmas boxset (does Joe Muggs still use this forum!) But it's not an easy thing to explain to someone, so that's what got me thinking of how the mainstream would describe it/ appraise it.

Plus if Carnao or whoever manages to get their CD played on Pete Tong's show their 2014 salary will be 2-20 grand higher than last years one
 
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Doe

Wild Horses
I don’t work within the media so any opinion I offer would be purely speculative.
The genre’s ‘up norf’ that have received more coverage are as they’re more representative of most media outlets key demos, were/are more established scenes and ultimately easier to define.

This lack of distinction is probably a gift and a curse. There seems to be an almost uniform reluctance to turn this offshoot of house into its own thing. I am sure proponents of other scenes birthed in the capital could tell you better than myself.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Benny I know I say this about pretty much all the mixes you post, but your new 'Deep Blue' mix really is great.
It's weird, for ages I thought that Gotham by Ten Walls was pretty dull and didn't really understand the fuss about it, but now after hearing it in the context of that mix I think it's ace. :D
 

datwun

Well-known member
I think there are some factors more general to the state of music journalism rather than just specific to deep tech - see also the total media non-interest in jackin for example.

Essentially, genre exposes are hard work. They require interviewing people, on the scene reporting from clubs, and a bit of linked up thinking to place new scenes in a context. In the 90s and early 00s there was Simon Reynolds with all those fantastic Wire articles willing and able to do all of that. But actually thinking about it, if he wasn't there, that would have been a fairly major chunk of the writing about those scenes gone (although obviously DnB and garage did get plenty of write-ups elsewhere. There's partly just a personelle thing in that the 00s heirs to Reynolds in terms of clever writing on UK music - notably Blackdown, Kpunk, Adam Harper - simply haven't been feeling the new house stuff of the past few years.

I also think that that whole mold of 'I have seen the future' type writing, or even 'there's this new thing happening' (as least when it comes to mostly-non-internetty scenes) had wained a whole lot in recent years.

I think the fact that deep tech is 'just house', has an insanely boring name (for what is a very interesting music), and even worse compaired to jackin, which at least had the good sense to steal a name from a music which had been more or less dead for 25 years, has stollen its name from deep house and tech house, which are still very very much alive - I think that contributes a lot to people not cottoning on to what's happening. Not an excuse those, cause even without some major sonic innovation like 2-step or whatever, it doesn't mean you can't write intelligently about changes within house, sociological things, placing this stuff in a tradition, that loops back to bleep and bass and acid etc etc.

For my own little part, after months of very slow progress and other life getting in the way, I'm making some real headway on this deep tech think piece. Expect movements within the next few weeks.
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
i dont mind if fact doesnt cover this stuff. i can see why it wouldnt appeal to them (to be fair, they dont really cover a lot of what the old dubstep guys are doing these days either). if this was a pre-web era, it would be magazines like touch (whatever their flaws) that would cover this stuff, not someone like fact. the mark radford show from 191213 has some great stuff on it. i dont know what the first track is (anyone?) but its kinda grimey.

http://www5.zippyshare.com/v/712779/file.html
 

continuum

smugpolice
Looking forward to reading your Deep Tech piece datwun!

For me one of the interesting things about Deep Tech is that this time you see the hardcore continuum trying to integrate itself rather than setting itself up separately. It was always weird how you had House doing it's own thing apart from the UK underground. House became the more acceptable, more mainstream version of what was going on elsewhere. There's a part of me that thinks after Grime (which for me was the rebellion music of choice during the Blair/Bush nightmare) a lot of people decided that House would be a better representation of their outlook. Part of the shock and distaste of certain existing elements of the House world at this development is something no longer desired.
 

wise

bare BARE BONES
I keep thinking that at least on some level this move to House must be connected to the Met's over zealous response to any kind of Grime nights in the capital. This issue has come to the fore again with the prevention of the night at The Barbican and another London venue (the name escapes me) saying they would no longer be able to host any kind of Grime/Urban events.
By shifting the focus to House and trying to keep it just House, Promoters/DJ's/Producers on the Urban/HC side can hide in plain sight, the Met can't target all House events and if they come right out and target those with a larger Black audience their racism would be unavoidable.

Jackin' came out of Police banning Bassline nights for similar reasons didn't it?
If your music is discriminated against by the establishment in this way, surely the only response is to more fully integrate/camouflage yourself within the mainstream.
Those that know, know, those that don't just see that ongoing 'House' scene and keeping targetting more obvious 'scenes' like Grime.
 
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