2013 > 013 > 130

[Benny Bunter]

also, I love Wiley as much as the next man but does no one else think this eski thing has been done to death by now?

 

[Vic Serotonin]

sorry but this is pure waffle man

Sorry if that wasn't clear enough. I just said that it seems like most of this stuff is at about 130 bpm (or a few bpm either side), and that as a DJ it's nice to be able to not have to change the pitch too much. Surely it wasn't a coincidence that most dubstep was at 140, or most jungle at 160? Tempo was an important organizing factor in both those cases, so I don't see why it's weird that a group of DJs/producers might gravitate towards 130 now, and I was just trying to offer one reason that that might be - namely, because 130 is a nice middle ground between funky on the one side, and dubstep and grime on the other. Does that make more sense?

 

[slackk]

I think that when you’re talking about this in terms of “130!” or it just being a “keysound” thing it’s getting oversimplified really. After the past few years’ sea change toward London being all about the house thing, and the UK sound in general, I’d say that this is more reflective of a lot of new producers coming through with a more “classic” dubstep or grime influence to their sound.
It seems to me from the stuff I’m hearing and being sent that the grime influence is really prominent of late, whether it’s at actual grime tempo (so many good producers coming through man) or the seemingly magical 130 number and downwards. But it’s not just this little pocket in one camp; if this is a thread about the extended keysound label then fair enough but this is definitely bigger than that.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Vic, sorry I'd had a glass of wine last night, thats why i was a bit rude.

 

[benw]

Vic, sorry I'd had a glass of wine last night, thats why i was a bit rude.

if that's what you're like after a glass of wine benny fuck bumping into you on a night out

 

[tom lea]

I think that when you’re talking about this in terms of “130!” or it just being a “keysound” thing it’s getting oversimplified really. After the past few years’ sea change toward London being all about the house thing, and the UK sound in general, I’d say that this is more reflective of a lot of new producers coming through with a more “classic” dubstep or grime influence to their sound.

It seems to me from the stuff I’m hearing and being sent that the grime influence is really prominent of late, whether it’s at actual grime tempo (so many good producers coming through man) or the seemingly magical 130 number and downwards. But it’s not just this little pocket in one camp; if this is a thread about the extended keysound label then fair enough but this is definitely bigger than that.

Pinch talks sense when he talks about how music is best suited to being categorised using mood rather than bpm.

both of these posts are spot on.

Beneath, Wen, Visionist are releasing on Keysound, and Rabit's on that compilation, but there's way more people on this wave than just them (a lot of whom i named earlier). it's really nothing to do with tempo, it's to do with getting back to UK music sounding sick again after a couple of years of bait maya jane coles-style house, and making stuff that's tough and hype and has a shock factor and appeals in the same way that garage and grime and bassline and funky did. It could be 100bpm or it could be 160bpm, doesn't matter.

 

[Vic Serotonin]

Benny, all good man, thanks. Slackk, agree that it's definitely beyond just Keysound, as Tom pointed out with plenty of other new labels coming through (Glacial, Egyptian Avenue, 92 Points, Niche n' Bump, Signal Life, Liminal Sounds, Poly Kicks etc), along with other more established labels who have been doing this for a bit longer (Local Action, Hessle, Box Clever, Tectonic, Punch Drunk, Frijsfo etc).

As for the fixation on tempo, I guess Blackdown's remarks about 130 resonate for me with something Kode9 once said at (I think) RBMA 2010 about how he preferred that the music he was into was at/around one tempo (for ease of DJing), and how he was generally frustrated/uninspired by the state of things at the time with 140bpm dubstep, and as a result his DJ sets required a lot of movement across a large range of tempos.

But yeah, whether or not you buy that that's significant/relevant or not, I'm just excited that it's happening.

 

[Roshman]

Mind you, following this logic and given that this thread is basically about the music on your label (and is quite a small scene right?) you've actually got more right than anyone to name this genre Martin, I'd go for it!

Can't wait to see Ministry of Sound "Keysound" compilation CDs in my local petrol station in 10 years time.

 

[firefly]

could you guys give some examples of tunes that are 'mindblowing' in your opinion?

 

[trilliam]

im not gonna lie theres some good mixes in here (rabit, threnody)

but what seperates this from post dubstep really and truly, to me it just sounds like the vacuum has moved onto grime. its sounds r gna be plundered, flipped then onto the next trend. nothing rong with that (i guess) but it's more hand me downs than emperors new clothes

anyway thats the long n short of it with me like i said i like most of what ive heard but some of what i dislike is highlighted here

This stuff only draws inspiration from a very specific part of funky, which was basically the part that sounded most like early dubstep anyway - dark rolling drums, brooding bass etc...but there was always much more to funky than that. Its much more a dubstep thing, I mean we're talking about Blackdown here!

smh whenever i see the funky link mentioned, tried that beneath stuff it's a nice idea like the whole "darkside funky" is a nice idea but it comes off too overwrought like its rele trying too hard in the whole funky department with the crazy drums w/e

with all this said what is the problem with house, bait maya janes this au-seve style that, even this whole revisiting thing seems like a direct reaction to it's being popular, if u r looking for the LONDON sound the attitude u r not gonna find it by trying to COMBINE every part of it's essence (grime,"funky",dubstep") weird sounds from a handful of experimental labels this may be, newfangled sensation it is definitely not. cant force these things uno.

 

[luka]

its fan fiction basically

 

[firefly]

lol nice one

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

its a bit like a frankenstein nuum. desperately trying to create the perfect nuum sound in response to everything else out there, but its not being done in an organic sense like the scenes of the past.

not that i dont like it.

 

[whytea]

Tracklisting:
Rabit – Abandoned - (Dub)
Facta – Montpelier - (Forthcoming)
Wen – In - (Dub)
Facta – Kobra - (Forthcoming)
Epoch – The Steppenwolf - (Forthcoming Keysound)
Sepia – Outbreak - (Dub)
Etch – Scattah - (Dub)
Karma – Armshouse Dub - (Dub)
Facta – Watertank - (Dub)
Facta & K-Lone – Voodoo - (Dub)
Facta – 36th Chamber - (Dub)


Kobra is a fucking beast

 

[Benny Bunter]

its fan fiction basically

could you say more about this luka? I think you're on to something.

I think fan fiction can be a wonderful thing - fantasizing and mythologising about art can produce great ideas and sometimes great art in itself. I think the problem with this stuff (and its been highlighted many times before on this forum) is that its become too knowledgeable about its subject. The story of dance music in london is indeed an endlessly fascinating subject, but it seems like the subject of the fascination has lost its mystery somewhat. Its easy for someone who was far too young to experience 90s rave for example, to become practically an expert in its history. Knowledge, huge amounts of it, is passed on through the internet and is accessible to everyone (rather than people learning directly from other people in a more localised way, as used to happen a lot more it seems). So what we get are all these records that, in coming so close to what they are inspired by, never sound quite right somehow. If a fan knows too much about their subject then then is nothing left to imagine and fantasize about - its just telling old stories over and over again.

Going even further off tangent here but with this debate I sometimes think its similar to learning a language off the internet vs going to classes and meeting native speakers in the flesh. Sure, you can stay at home and learn thousands of words, improve your listening skills etc etc and reach a high level of knowledge about grammar and so on - but you're not going to sound as natural as someone who goes out and communicates with people first hand, or be able to express your own thoughts and ideas as well. And you can almost never speak as well a native obviously. Post dubstep music in the internet age is like the equivalent of esperanto.

I'm loathe to bring up Jackin again in yet another thread, but I think it provides a nice contrast and explains why it appeals so much more to me. I think the fairly blatant idiocy of much of it really masks one of its strengths - there is less respect for the past, so you get a lot more hijacking of current hits and mainstream music styles, whatever,s fresh and popular at the time. When old songs are sampled or ripped off it isn't usually a reverent thing but a straight populist move, or often an act of vandalism on the original. The people making Jackin at the the minute are much more localised, and therefore seem to be constantly collaborating on tunes together (and half the scene must have been through Lorenzo's studio at some point) and this strikes me as a very healthy way to pass on expertise and build a scene. The fan fiction problem that (i think?) luka was referring to doesn't really come into it.

I could go on, boringly, and I'm sorry for shitting up this thread for people who into this stuff , but luka's comment just triggered few thoughts is all and I want him to expand a bit more on what he means for once

oh god, the most stoned rambling post ever but fuck it, off it goes!

 

[Corpsey]

I wish someone would write a proper history of grime (unless this exists already and I'm just ignorant of it) cos to me those 8 bar tunes just sound like they came out of nowhere almost - Wiley's synths e.g. where did that come from? I suppose Pulse X kicked it off? Also I guess the technology was part of it - making beats on playstations and all that.

I love this tune


but its not 'mindblowing' to me cos its recycling old eski sounds. I really like the Beneath Fact mix too but again its just like dubstep with house beats.

I do appreciate the idea of taking UK music 'back' to being more grimey, broken etc. cos house is getting boring to me at this point. I guess funky was doing that though until it sort of died out and jackin' (stuff like ill / phil lorenzo) is doing that too. I think the stuff in this thread is more like dubstep, more geared towards depth and atmospherics than hype and you know what I do miss dancing to that kind of thing too. I can imagine seeing Beneath in Plastic PPL for example would be quite a zoner.

 

[Pandiculate]

Tracklisting:
Rabit – Abandoned - (Dub)
Facta – Montpelier - (Forthcoming)
Wen – In - (Dub)
Facta – Kobra - (Forthcoming)
Epoch – The Steppenwolf - (Forthcoming Keysound)
Sepia – Outbreak - (Dub)
Etch – Scattah - (Dub)
Karma – Armshouse Dub - (Dub)
Facta – Watertank - (Dub)
Facta & K-Lone – Voodoo - (Dub)
Facta – 36th Chamber - (Dub)


Kobra is a fucking beast

sick mix

 

[Roshman]

After having to sit through most of Saturdays (02/03/13) Boilerroom from New York, as my girlfriend was waiting for Nicolas Jaar to come on, I find myself appreciating the need to preserve this "UK" sound.

While some might say that the harking back / ripping off / re-hashing of 2006 Dubstep glory years or eski-grime is counter-productive / inward looking / overly-nostalgic it is something that needs to happen. It's obviously not just done in an unimaginative way, it's been improved, tweaked, twisted into some strain that for some reason or another didn't make itself apparent when the sounds of those genres were being found or discovered.

If there aren't people out there, sticking to their guns, promoting the sound that was born from an actual scene then you could find yourself in a situation that I'm listening to now. Where some of the most unimpressive music I've heard for a long time is being lauded and we're all expected to believe how brilliant it all is.

Big up Blackdown for being unwavering in his selection. Keysound could no doubt be a lot bigger than it is today if it decided to go down some bait paths, but instead it's become a home to an uncompromising array of sounds and truly talented producers, regardless of name.

 

[jorge]

So what we get are all these records that, in coming so close to what they are inspired by, never sound quite right somehow. If a fan knows too much about their subject....

It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject. I get where your coming from but why not just take the music for what it is instead of trying to work out how authentic it is and how well it fits into the nuum model (although admittedly the music is presenting itself as a very nuum sound) .

By your logic ( which im not necessarily disagreeing with) places like this forum are in fact damaging the music because of the endless discussion and the retrospective crystallisation of this music. Which is interesting because it shows that criticism doesnt exist in a vacuum and that the kind of theorising you are doing, ie. that jackin is more appealing because it has less respect for the past and is more idiotic, perhaps will encourage others to do the same, but then will they be authentically idiotic or just making fan-fiction idiocy?

I can enjoy both jackin and this stuff but I think theres more potential in this because jackin is starting from a pretty played out sound and this stuff is abit fresher. I would say though, it needs less grime referencing because that does makes it come off sounding like a pastiche alot of the time.

 

[SecondLine]

It sounds to me like you know too much about the subject.

yes, this.